BPDRecovery.com: Forums

those are great , smiling. i keep reading them over and over. if its ok, i want to add something that leaped out at me from it.

speaking for me, and my cptsd, this is what i noticed.

every one of those was forbidden and hated by my abusers. i find it very hard to overcome that teaching and choose the list. a self protection thing. it must be done by me conciously, over and over.

as i was taught, and i will go out on a limb and say lots of us with this dx were...

1. ALWAYS hide who i am. being me will result in bad things and pain.
2. i must be selfish to survive. i must discount the other (abuser) as he is crazy making. i must only count me or i wont survive.
3. ALWAYS follow rules. of course those rules change daily, are completly inconsistent, and the penalty for breaking one is pain or death. so its a constant dance, to keep up and key word..."anticipate" rules.
4. scaring myself? i am terrified. any noise, any being noticed, is never good. i must stay scared to survive.
5. ALWAYS take everything seriously. if not, the risk is there to be screamed at...your not listening! your a worthless piece of shit because you dont listen to ME..i am God!...i will teach you to take me seriously!
6. start getting rid of crap. if i do that, i risk losing all the stuff it took me so long to learn to stay alive. how can it be crap--altho i think it is deep inside---if it keeps me alive or causes me such pain?
7. ALWAYS be busy. if not, someone sitting around will always get in trouble. for being lazy, for saying the wrong thing, something. never sit close to adults or others. never invite attention.
8. NEVER start anything. it will be wrong, it will something "they" didnt choose.

i found this intensely , almost incredibly odd to read it and then share my own immediate feelings.

your list was just something i am gonna print out and put where i always see it. it concreted something in me that my own shit came from. ANOTHERS point of view and issues. and i can not own that any longer. i can not own what another thinks or says about me. i can walk off and say hit me? i dont think so!

just such a lightbulb here. i wonder if others can relate? esp those with my dx of cptsd. (i know there is some here with it besides me)

i can see how i thought, why i behaved x way, and how wrong it all was. how its the others issue! just FREAKING amazing. that one little list!!!

just wow

here was the list. Eight Principles of Fun

The Eight Irresistible Principles of Fun are:

Stop hiding who you really are.
Start being intensely selfish.
Stop following the rules.
Start scaring yourself.
Stop taking it all so damn seriously.
Start getting rid of the crap.
Stop being busy.
Start something.

so as not to hijack the other thread, i have moved my post here.

how strange abusers strive for control over another and their happiness triggers the abuse. to simply erase the other and insert their own pain into that person..."vessel" to take it away from themselves. that is their goal. "their smiling? how dare they when i hurt so much and wont face it. i must take away that smile to put my pain in there and then i wont ever have to feel it". and then it begins.

this is just a incredible thing to see. thank you. i didnt have clue when i began reading how it would impact me.

the kicker is to do all the 8 things, a cptsd person feels its so wrong and so dangerous. lots of work to overcome that.

to overcome negative things told one takes so much work. if people could see the damage such things cause in a visual way, maybe they would stop doing it so much. the blows show...bruises, cuts, broken bones. the words dont. maybe they would see their need to do it and work on that.

again, thanks for sharing the list.

this is just stunning revelations to me. when i read that list, it all just came pouring out.

(i find it strange that for a board mostly about bpd, many dont see this and discount abuse , which is one* major cause of bpd, along with abandonment, for a great many of us. they dont delve into it. they discourage discussing or feeling the effects and the long process to change them..maybe they cant due to their own-- shrug**--not my thing to own!)

I haven't yet read the thread this was posted in. So I don't know what was said there.

Anyway, what struck me on the list was "start scaring yourself". Now, I'm not actually sure that that means. That's the one I don't quite get. But one thing I do get. When one is already scared because of what others are doing, then scaring oneself looks pretty damn unappealing.

Does it mean step out of your comfort zone? Now that could be pretty scary

Jody can you think of ways you could counteract any of those? Out of interest I have a few ideas but I don't know if you would like that or not?

Can you see any ways you could overwrite some of those messages? For yourself! Slowly and carefully of course!

Jody, I found myself nodding my head to the rules you were taught as a child, that are the exact opposite of what has been suggested to us to do now, as adults. The only one I didn't agree with you on is 2. which was And you said:
I was taught to not be selfish, and to always put others wishes, needs, commands, desires before my own. In fact, I wasn't to have needs at all. How dare I? And take the attention of them? I wonder if what you experienced is in a way the same as what I did - "I have to take care of my own basic needs", cause nobody else is going to provide me with safety, comfort, food, attention, etc?" And whilst it can seem that we are being selfish having to manage our own basic survival, we weren't being selfish in the way that this article tells us to be - doing what we wanted to do, being ourselves, etc.

I find what happens when I challenge any one of these messages I was given as a child is it "feels wrong."

I believe the original quote was "Do one thing every day that scares you." I think it was an exhortation to prevent becoming complacent and emotionally feeble. It was by Elenore Roosevelt. I don't know the original context, but in this case, she wrote it on my refrigerator magnet.

What I found was how foreign each of those things are to me.

Stop hiding who you really are - this has always been a taboo as even tho no one came out directly and said such; it was easy to pick up the nuiances in their speech and tone.

Start being intensely selfish - what self? (see Amandas post above for a rough idea of why I say this)

Stop following the rules - and not receive love? not be accepted?

Start scaring yourself - i scare easily over simple things.. one friend likes to say she is inquisitive and just yesterday my hairdresser said the same thing (that she was).. me? umm.. nope inquisitive meant breaking the rules and not conforming.. i learned to be good/loved/behaved by conforming (touches on this similiar topic in amandas post-peeling back the layers)

Stop taking it all so damn seriously - not sure where this actually came from but yep being responsible was always the key to living a good/acceptable life (partiallly shown via my dad's example and even my mom's;partially part of the mentoring my dad provided me... a good life is one that reflects responsiblity by doing a, b, c, s, t, u, v etc)

Start getting rid of the crap - not sure here what they consider crap (might not have gotten this far into the video) but emotions weren't too acceptable.

Stop being busy - idleness tho i had plenty wasnt all that creative; just about comfortable niches that didnt lead me to being bad/unaccepted/unloved/irresponsible

Start something - An old saying I ran across years ago "he who hesitates is lost".. I am a great procrastinator but have improved a lot over the past few yrs. Likewise I am learning to not let the fear of success/failure (perfectionism) paralyze me. Tho it does impact me.

I dont classify any of this, in my case, as abuse. What I do see is how 'unfree' I am and how, somewhat as Amanda commented, their opposites (as I noted) were the best/better/safe/acceptable way(s) to go.

And, what I like about these 8 principles is that they do indeed challenge me. I think just picking one and trying to make some headway would be a great undertaking for myself. Moreso, I see this, perhaps somewhat as you did Jody, something to keep and review constantly- a little reminder/guide about what holds me back (or can) from enjoying life more fully.

Going back to your comments about abuse/control. One thing that, I think it was my sister, came up with, is our folks did use some of those things to try to control us, but it wasn't for the sake of controlling us; it was an attempt themselves at being accepted/acceptable. Both my folks had a lot of tough love to deal with and not in the sense of tough love to reign them in or give them boundaries but in feeling/finding love from their own parents. So, some of what may have been invalidating for me was a result of they themselves seeking validation; acceptance; approval; love.

I'm stating this purely as how I see my situation and as how I've come to accept my own parents. It's pretty tough to hear dad, on his death bed saying "I did a lot of things wrong"... when in truth, he did the best he could with what he knew and believed at those times. He didnt ruin his kids; he gets (and we do) a ton of praise by friends and family for who we are.

His statement left out all the things he did right and the various ways he changed; adapted and put his family above his own personal needs (tho, perhaps this, providing the best for his family, was more of a want than a need.. cept perhaps again a need for approval/acceptance).

(sorry to divert, but I think it ties together.. he would have had very similiar obstacles to overcome in that list for very much the same reasons- acceptance/approval)



Yeah, I agree but worth the results, no ?

I think as with anything taking it in steps/pieces and maybe while all this is new experimenting with different points/pieces until one finds one or two that feel less daunting. The ole saying progress not perfection comes to mind.

Ellen- yes I understand what you are saying (I think?!) about not scaring oneself when others have already scared you. I think the focus is a little bit different, but nonetheless intimdating, for sure.

Amanda - your post about others vs self is similiar to what went on in our home.

IBF - thanks for the input. I do think that is what they are referring to, or at least a version of it.

Myself I interpreted that (and anyone can find out what "they" mean by clicking on the link in Amandas thread on peeling back the layers) to mean that its time to break the mold; challenge oneself and do something that isn't your own personal norm. (ie live a little; grow; push yourself) I see it as saying do it for yourself and forget about others.

i am so glad (and relieved) others related to this. i did want to edit out my comment about the board in general...this should be work on me and it will be, as well as anyone else who cares to join in the work for themselves.

tracy, i have begun to work on all that. what i do for me, pretty misunderstood usually on here, is put things done in writing to get all my shit straight in my mind. ie..."umm have fun" well, i can tell myself that till the cows come home, but unless i set it all down in steps, i will never get there to see why i cant and begin to do it.

i am not one who someone can simply say DO THIS. i do better with why cant i do THAT? and go from there. i do see a lot dont understand that process i use, and have many misconceptions about it. but its how i learn and heal. im not sticking in one thing, im simply doing steps to get from a to z.

amanda, i agree. i wondered about that myself, as i was taught to not be selfish in some twisted way. however, digging deeper, i found i learned to be selfish to survive. i think that is where most of my anger comes from. that i had to fight to survive and fight the very people who i shouldnt have to! a odd conflict of behavior...for sure. i was taught i didnt matter, only how i caused others pain or unhappiness. but in opposite, i had to be selfish or literally drown in their own neediness. plus feed myself, dress myself, etc. tend to my own safety stuff which wasnt taught me.

yes, its a odd thing. i am so glad you posted and related. so im not the odd one out as i feared. it is part of my cptsd.

i find the same thing, it feels wrong, i use the word "forbidden" to describe it. yes, exactly. i dreamed half the night about this, it has touched in deep places some deep stuff. and it brings on anxiety and fear to fight the concepts. or to accept the list concepts.

perhaps you know, why our own being selfish, ie being happy as ourselves, was so threatening to the "others". ??? i have never figured that out. may never, who knows?

tracy, thanks for your input. i do try and i think it would be too long to post here but its enough to say going against what i was taught is extremely hard and scary. cptsd is brainwashing, and very hard to deal with and keeps coming back at odd times. many things seemingly not connected end up connected to it.

stop following the rules i can do much of the time. unfortunately, i am very defensive at the same time and thats not good.
stop taking everything seriously i try much of the time. thus, my strange humor.
also, extremely hard, as i seem to take almost everything too seriously, despite my sense of humor.
always be busy i find very hard to not do. my H hates me sitting around. sitting down i get antsy and nervous. i can barely read my books somedays because i cant sit still and concentrate.
start something is kinda, well, depends on what i start.

hell im shaking just typing this .....to go against what i was taught.

stop hiding who you really are is the toughest for me. from almost day 1, i learned to hide that.

i found this list incredibly enlightening, a huge starting point i will take to counseling with me (a safe place to do work). i began delving into myself with it, and it opened up a ton. mostly the forbidden "stuff" it just hits right on.

i would value any views on this, from anyone this resonates with to -share with me this work in this thread.

for some reason, and i know many dont understand it, i do these steps to work on things. without them, i just flail in deep water. which is a waste of precious time. it seems i cant undo brainwashing without the steps. just deciding "i will" will not work for me.

ellen, i think, for me, the "start scaring yourself" means step out of the safe place. question the brainwashing! (God how scary is that?). it means, look into the whys one behaves a certain way or thinks a certain way. cause im telling ya, even questioning this has scared the shit outta me. maybe, at least for me, that is what that sentence means. start the healing! get off my ass. think. question.

my "comfort zone" is not healing in the least. it is my "old self". the one i came here with. i cant stay in it and grow at all.

amanda, another thought. i was taught also to have no needs. however, as a human we do. do you think that is where so much of the anger comes from? it is a conflicting teaching. as most else we have. that inner conflict, i think, is what fucks us up so much into this adulthood.

another thing, i want to ask you, should i do it here? its about our moms, and i want to ask your permission first because that is one deep touchy subject for us both. think about it and see if its ok and you want me to do it here in this thread? ok? if its not, thats cool.

tracy, share all you want. its cool.