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long absence here, I know, but this is something that has disrupted my sleep and my appetite tonight. I can't seem to just put it down and pick it up another time.

I'm hoping there are obvious answers that I am just missing here.

this evening I was around a person from my past who I sorta deleted from my life as they were wrapped up in drama I no longer wanted in my life. I used to think this person was a decent friend, and there was a time we were kinda close. I generally stay distanced from this person when he comes back around, keeping conversation to its most casual form.

but part of me misses the friendship I thought we had. if it really existed in the form I thought it did. by that I mean that when I excised this person, along with several others, from my life, my overall stress level plummetted. I missed him, and them, but not the accompanying drama.

anyhow. this evening I found myself triggered into a real rage by something this person, J, said about another friend possibly getting involved with said bunch. Knowing full well J tends to stretch a story, if not outright lie, I still found myself completely enraged at the thought of what he'd told me about my other friend. Slowly, I let J's declaration twist my thinking into several knots-- maybe he was telling the truth! If so, I've been backstabbed! How could my other friend do this to me? WHat's wrong with people? That's it! I'm going to live in a cave!

and so on. I know it's a ridiculous reaction, but man this one's got stamina!

I was already having a crummy day-- work was a PAIN (had the boss along all day giving me the spanish inquisition all day, talking in circles, and leaving me generally baffled at whether I was doing great or horrible), and I was tired and had totally not eaten healthy, nor on my usual pattern. so, baseline stats were off, admittedly. and I may wake up tomorrow (if I ever get to sleep) and laugh all of this off.

ugh! ramble mode. My question is this: should I be working on defusing triggering people, or just cutting them out of my life altogether? It seems to me the "good fight" as it were would be to take the opportunity to identify and really work on whatever it is that so derails my usual calm. But I'm also not sure it's worth getting so bent out of shape over. Or rocking my boat, if you will.

appreciate, as always, any clarity. I've just sort of lost my way.

Maybe some of the material shared in the following thread might be of use to you: http://board.bpdrecovery.com/bpdrecovery.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7542

?????

rules of engagement for the board? I'm not trying to be dense but you've completely lost me in how the ROE has to do with my questions. The people I mentioned are not involved at all with this community so far as I know. And I'm not writing my post in response to anything here, so I'm missing where I'm engaging anyone.

If what you're suggesting is I go figure this out by myself, fine. sorry to clog up the board. Have things changed that much since I was last here?

Wow - why such a fight? I was actually trying to be helpful.

Ash posted about her experience with being triggered by somebody and how it meant spending hours looking within herself to see why this person had so much power over her feelings. I guess in a way I was suggesting that you do the same. What is it about this person comuunication style that has the power to rattle you so much? Do you know exactly what the trigger is? How can you prevent it from triggering you again? I wasn't implying that your current situation had anything to do with the board and a problem with a member, but the information provided there could be just as equally be applied in real life, in 3D. It may mean putting a distance between yourself and the person involved until you can figure out what bothers you so much, and then with a bit of luck the next time you come across the same behaviour pattern, either in them or somebody else, you might not react so strongly, or at all. This is how I personally deal with a situation like this.

You're not clogging up the board. But only you can know what it is about this person that bothers you and why. Nobody here can answer that for you.

I completely missed your point, amanda, but I'm seeing it now. you've clarified it, and that's all I was asking for, since in looking at the ROE thread, I was just confuzzled. I kinda took that thread as more of a guideline for interactions here.

just needed a little spoon-feeding. and since you've delivered it...

I am, and have been wrestling with the line of questions you're mentioning. And I guess that I second guess my anger when I know I'm triggered up. Is it legitmate anger, or am I actually mad about something else entirely and taking it out on undeserving people?

and I guess the answer is when I can sort through these triggers without losing control, I should work on them. When it's too much, I should maybe just, as you said, create distance until things get clear again. I just didn't want to be a coward in my avoidance. Working on things as we need to, it sometimes takes a little courage to fight the good fight.

but I guess there's not much logic in just diving in the deep end of the pool, so to speak, and floundering.

I've just not had such a strong reaction like this in a long while. tripped me up a bit.

I didn't mean to come off so scrappy about it, really. I'm glad I see what you meant now. It's helpful, and I'm grateful.

Hi, Perhaps I should have been clearer in the first place. Glad that you can now see that I was trying to be helpful. I guessed I sensed "fight" in your words, but you were right to clarify.



Oh, I hear you on this one. It is hard to tell sometimes whether ones reactions are legit for the situation or whether there is some "transference" stuff going on. ANd then of course there are those reactions where they are combo of both. I've had what I thought were purely transference reactions, only to discover that my feelings were actually justified for the in the moment situation.



It really helps me to use mindfulness techniques; to just recognise "I'm feeling x right now" and to just sit with the feeling, observe where it is in my body, not judging it, not making it right or wrong, good or bad (It just is), and watching as the feeling changes and moves through my body until it eases/passes. Whatever thoughts I have associated with the feelings (emotional mind) I also allow to pass by like leaves on a stream - I think they call this "teflon mind" in DBT terms. When I'm calm my thoughts tend to be less twisted up and I can assess a situation more clearly. Yes, that means stepping back and creating a distance. If I find that my feelings are indeed justified for the in the moment situation, it can be useful to go back to the person concerned and express what I'm thinking/feeling in a calm, rational manner.

I hope you managed to work through this.

Well, while I am still severely lacking in sleep, I'm WAY calmer in general.

I was really interested in the examination of the physical sensations of my reactions-- this is something I've not considered when sitting with my emotional flare-ups. This experience was mostly a burning nausea, paired with an overall muscle tension similar to maybe having way too much caffeine (incidentally, I usually avoid caffeine, so that wasn't it).

I hope that this physical manifestation of anxiety is something that's been discussed on the boards here somewhere, as I'd likely do well to look more into it.

I'm still in the distancing for clarity phase. My "antagonist" for lack of a better phrase, J, used to be a good friend. And I guess I still care about him a bit. But the bigger trigger, I think, is in considering what he'd said about the other friend, who just happens to be a best friend. There's a lot of care involved in this, so it is ramping up the reactions. Clarity is hard, very hard.

I'm not sure, but I think the redline anxiety comes more from the implications on my best friend than from J. But there are a LOT of assumptions going on, and I am probably giving J's gossip more validity than it deserves. And he's a pattern of stirring up this sort of anxiety in me. I need to just call him on this next time. Tell him that he gossips like a high school girl, talks trash, and that I resent it. That I also resent the role he played in past transgressions, given how tight we used to be.

But I also need to create a different distance in that we're all on our own little journey. Even if the improbable things J mentioned are true, there's absolutely nothing I can do about it. I can only steer MY ship. If someone else doesn't choose to accompany me on my path(s), to withhold my friendship from them isn't anything but manipulative. I'd be guilty of the same thing I'm finding fault in here.

I can't take things so personally. It likely has nothing at all to do with me. I can state my feelings on the matter, and maybe hash things out to some common ground if it's really necessary to, but at the end of the day... I just need to detach myself from things a bit better.

right? maybe?

This isn't exactly the same, but maybe a little bit. I have a friend who triggers me. She lives in another state, and I find when I talk to her on the phone, I get frustrated and she sometimes brings out the worst in me. She complains to me about different things, but when I try to give her advice, she refuses to take it. So I get frustrated. She also forwards me e-mails that I find racist, which really offends me.

I've decided to back off a bit. I am not terminating the friendship, but I am backing off. I can't allow this person to bring out the worst in me. I don't like being triggered. I too feel bad because I enjoyed our friendship. But we can't allow people to drag us down. Sure, you miss your friend. But maybe now you are recovering and see what is really best for yourself. You need to put yourself first, imo. It's not a selfish thing. People like us have suffered for so long, it's time we take control and do what we need to for ourselves.

I found myself getting sucked into my friend's dramas, and I dont' need that. So I hope you figure out what is most important to you. I'm sending you good wishes!

If you are interested in the physical reactions you are having, follow this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight-or-flight_response It's just a basic overview of the fight or flight sympathetic nervous sytem resonse that, IMO, you are describing. I get this too.

I like learning about how my body reacts physically. I sometimes feel if I can control the physical response, I can better control the emotion that comes along with it. Just my two cents, good luck.

found some clarity, though not so much through working through things at my own pace.

last night in my region, we had an explosion at a chemical plant. it wasn't a disaster, though it could've been. But when it happened, all of my stuff disappeared. The furthest thing from my mind was what any dramatic soul had to say about anyone I cared about.

cripes, I don't even care anymore if what J said is true. None of it matters in the face of an averted crisis. More importantly, I woke up and thought about the situation from a LOT of distance. Sort of a "how does this all suss out on paper" and the quick and dirty answer is: it doesn't. Nothing J said sounds truthful. J is not known for being truthful. Never has.

I am someone who is demanding of honesty in people. J fails that litmus test, regardless of whatever other features he has that I may value or like. At the end of the day, he's not been trustworthy. And I just about feel ashamed for having allowed him to divert any of my energy towards his drama.

next time, I'll be wiser. And I'll show more respect and gratitude for the wonderful friendships I DO have. The healthier ones. The ones that deserve my energy.

I'm hoping this gives my adequate distance, though, to also work on the many triggers I encountered. This is rooted in an anger that's now a few years old. I don't deserve the burden of that rage. I deserve to forgive the people and move on.

that's still a tall work order.

I've had little success in getting in touch with my triggers here, I'm sad to report.

in the span of one day, I earlier felt like I could almost forgive people and just move on.

by day's end, more gossip and/or people's stories not adding up has me irate again, and the triggers white hot.

I am so very disappointed at my failure to defuse these triggers, this anger, this rage, this doubt, this fear. Because at the base of it all, I recognize that I am tired of being so easily affected by these triggers. I am tired of the hate. I just want to move on.

I don't want to feel this anxiety that puts knots in my stomach. I don't want to lose sleep. I don't want my mind to race a million miles an hour conjuring what ifs. And I don't want to replace the tension in my neck that I've been seeing a chiropracter to help heal.

I'm trying to just internally yell "stop it!" louder than every other voice, every other twisted thought. drown it all out.

take a shower. apply heat therapy to my neck per chiro's orders. take zma and other sleepy time aids. rest. sleep.

try again when it doesn't set me off so.

I don't know if it's progress, but today at least, I'm trying to wrap my mind around some of the things that set me off.

And it feels like a rollercoaster. I don't like rollercoasters much. I'm afraid of heights, but I don't mind going fast. Actually, I think a more accurate statement would be that I don't like things being completely out of my control.

but what IS in my control? how many of these triggers can I control? not too many, really. all I can control is how I react to them.

my anxiety is like fire. left unchecked and unbridled, it indiscriminately destroys anything in its reach. but you guide it, you reign it in, it can be a tool. it can be contained.

and I really can't believe the clarity of this in light of the day I've had. work had me p*ssed off before 8am even arrived. I was too wired throughout my chiropractic visit to feel any results from it until well over 9 hours later. I was infuriated, stressed, and exasperated.

normally I'd still be taking it all personally and moping. instead I stepped back at some point and thought, "none of this is worth compromising my general health." I've carried a ridiculous amount of tension in my entire back and neck for weeks. I've lost sleep. I've had to sit on the injured bench and miss out on the activities I normally do.

why? because I was spinning my tires trying to dream up ways to control things I can't control. people I can't control. things already in the past.

instead of spinning into a dervish of twisted thinking, I stopped in its tracks every thought that had anything to do with something I really had no control over. focus on what I CAN do. not what I can't.

I still feel the rush of anxiety, but it's dialed back to a 9 instead of 10. like a rollercoaster. I don't like the feelings, but I know it's not going to kill me. anything short of killing me, I can recover from-- all of the fears, all of them even if they happen, I can survive.

like a rollercoaster, it seems to fly out of control at times, it scares the hell out of me, but at the end of the ride, I was on a rail the whole time. this was just me finding that rail for once instead of focusing on the terror of it.

I'm trying to keep a "safe distance" from a few triggers right now, get close enough to see things, but not so close I get engulfed in it. figure out what really scares me about the trigger. identify if it is a realistic fear or not. if so, what are the realistic outcomes. then how to deal with those outcomes.

my heart still races, my stomach still knots up, but I can just back off it gets to be too much. hope all the analogy and what not made sense. I hope that reads well.

I thought it read very well. It sounds to me like you are making progress!!!
Now, what's the next step? How to keep it up? Have you read the 4 agreements?

I guess I don't really want to preach or anything here, just tell you that I see a lot of good work in this post.

Congrats!

thanks for the reply, Harmonium.

lol-- I've had to remind myself and reread the 4 agreements so many times I've put the audiobook on my ipod. My ipod is pretty much with or on me at all times (I drive a lot for my job), so it's always there for refreshers.

I actually have found the other piece, the mastery of love, to be helpful as well.

as for what's next... I'm trying to write down, in its rawest form, what my triggers are and how they make me feel. then I just try and peel away the layers until I get to the smallest common denominator. then realistically connecting it to possible consequences. then realistically trying to identify how I would deal with those consequences.

I'm hoping that many triggers can be tied back to a smaller list of common causes, which should, in theory, mean fewer solutions. by that I mean, like if these 10 triggers are stemming from a fear of abandonment, if I can overcome and defuse that fear of abandonment (1 thing), it's easier than overcoming and defusing the original 10 triggers (10 things).

it may not always work that way, I may have to wade through the 10 triggers on an individual basis to make my way to the central 1 issue, but it's whichever.

another helpful book I've been piecing through has been paulo coelho's warrior of the light. some of it reads a little on the hokey end of the spectrum due to the warrior/sword analogies (or are they metaphors?), but some of the simple lessons speak quite clearly and directly to some of my fears. and being no stranger to literary device myself... who'm I to criticize?

I guess one could liken it to exposure therapy? cozying up to triggers, observing things about them, then rewiring the way I look and react to the triggers.

I think this is really good and articulated in a way that I had not thought about before:

it is exactly true. each one will go back to a common issue,. work on the issue. altho i have to work on the trigger as in besides "why" i have to do "what is a better response?" thing. i use the steps and twisted thinking tools along with a dash of my own ideas and it works well.

but triggers will go back to a common problem...

I know this is going to be against what some poeple here believe, but sometimes, not always, but sometimes, I have to just stick with "What is a better response" then trying to dig into why why why. Example.

I have abandonment issues.

People leaving are a problem for me.

I have already discovered this about myself.

every time I feel abondoned, I don't need to rehash the original root cause of that issue, I need to focus on the response I should display.

sorry kari, i should have prefaced my post with this is just my own view.

i totally believe the more views given, the more each member can sort and try and find the one combo that works best for them. sorta like fine tune the basics to each individual needs.

many, many dont do the why thing. for me, due to ummm i guess who i am, why is extremely important. for others, not so.

i hope every member can see all views and then choose the one to try or stick with for themselves.

is this ok for me to post?

see, i do both. what is a better response as well work on the whys during times i do deeper work. the response is more a immediate thing and i can do it many times almost automatically now. but to me, for a permanent fix, i work on the deep stuff, which includes why.

and i dont "rehash", not at all. that would be pointless for me.

damn, its hard to explain in type.

I think I see middle ground or 'grey' here. A mixing of both methods can be useful IMO. Yes, Kari, to deal with a specific issue one doesn't necessarily need to know the why (some do, to each their own). It can actually be very useful especially in the heat of the moment just to focus on the behaviour in question and an appropriate response rather than the why. But to 'peal back the layers' and get to the core issue seems to me to be what boxingmyshadow was doing. For me, it seems to have a more lasting effect.

For instance, I get really possessive of my 'circle' of friends. That would be trigger A. I don't like newcomers, trigger B. I am jealous of my 'circle' have 'outside' contact, trigger C. I get angry at myself for these reactions, trigger D. The basis of all these (triggers A-D)? Fear of abandonment by anyone I view as being part of my circle, trigger X. So, if I can deal with trigger X, the others melt away. At least for me. If I only deal with trigger B, I solve the immediate situation, but I still have A, C, D and mainly X to contend with. This is how I work, maybe you work differently. I don't know. But I can see how solving X solves the rest. I certainly agree that we all have to find out what works for each of us individually and I would never attempt to tell someone that their way was 'wrong'. I don't think like that. I know this example was a bit simplistic, but I think my point came across.

I also agree that once the why is figured out, no more rehashing needs to be done. The discovery has been made. So to control the behaviour in the NOW, I rely on tricks I have taught myself when I 'peeled'. I would then focus on X because that would be the catalyst for the other negative behaviours.

H, you said it better than i did. ty! yeah, thats what i meant..........its gray. not a either/or thing. i still believe tho, unless the core issue is solved, we are only doing a temp fix to the core issue. imho of course./

forgot to add, i do respect that its your choice, kari, and if it works for you, great!

i also wanted to clarify i wasnt meaning "rehash" as relive or whatever a "old" situation. i can identify say..a core abandonment issue..and can feel, ok, i feel x and y, and know what it is and why without rehashing it again, yet i can deal with it using the tools.

to work on it, i dont have to relive it constantly. once im in touch with it, then i have that down pat. i just have to know the basic reason for trigger y or z. if i only work on the behavior, it just doesnt fix the core reason i did it. however, for immediate solutions, i have to use the work the exact behavior response.

maybe i should say one is for deeper work, one is for more immediate.

im still not sure some here understand what some of us mean by "digging into the whys". its kinda apparent in the responses to it. nor do some understand by saying z is the core reason, we are in no way excusing our behavior. or thinking hey, i can act so and so because ..... adult thinking doesnt work that way.

regardless, its each of our choices on what works for us in the long run. i do respect that. im only voicing what experience taught me works for me.

I just wanted to say that I'm both humble and grateful if this rambling post of mine has been of any assistance to anyone else. I wasn't sure I could add anything to the discussion that followed my last post, but was wholly thankful that it "grew some feet" if you will.

A very stressful situation just reached its nadir this week for me. I expect the shockwaves to subside rather quickly now, and I'm quite grateful for it. I went to the bookstore today and loaded up on zen/buddhism books to try and encourage myself to return to a less hateful, stressed state of mind. flow with the go, as it were.

I digress. I certainly shift from working on core issues to specific cases. I just, myself, have recently been able to note common denominators in my triggers. and in focusing on the themes, I guess the familiarity makes the struggle of the work seem more surmountable, if only by virtue of a certain predictability. well, no, not predictability... but maybe similar feelings that overlap certain triggers.

I have to do both-- investigate the triggers as individual things, and the overall picture. this was especially helpful in identifying triggers that elicited similar physical responses. I have to work on knowing the forest AND the trees.