BPDRecovery.com: Forums

Trinity, I have had some situations arise here in RL where I believe people have been "talking about me." I don't know if I would call it gossip per se - just that my name has come up in conversation and people have been saying things. I know it because it's occurred twice in the past 2 weeks and said to my face.

It makes me wonder who is doing it and why. I dont' lead that interesting a life. It's not "bad" stuff they're saying - I'd say it's more "personal" stuff they're talking about. I don't know where it's coming from. I think I might know who is starting it, but I don't have proof and in any case, I don't want to go there.

There's nothing I can do about it. I don't know the source. I can guess, but that's all it would be. And to try to find out and start a scene would only make things worse. So I choose to not do anything. I am not a victim - I'm just being realistic. Sure, it makes me uncomfortable to think my personal life is being talked about by people who don't even know me that well. I find it creepy. But what can you do, you know?

Unfortunately, that's the problem with having a mental illness. One person knows something about you and before you know it, everyone knows you're "fragile" and "having problems." I just have to hold my head up and go on. I have no other choice. So just deal with it, you know?

I think Trinity, you're doing the right thing. Not everything has to be confronted. Some things are better left alone. At least that's my take on it.

You are "sorry" you turned to the Board for help? Because you didn't like what others were posting? :skritch

Where did your sifting through the replies go to? Take what fits and leave the rest?

Sounds to me like you are taking this way too personally and leaving in a huff because it didn't go exactly how you wanted it to.

You never did answer if the situation was on here or not. Which leads me to think that perhaps, indeed, it was. And if it was behind your back, HOW do you KNOW?

I think the issue of whether the situation was on the board or not is irrelevant to this post. Trinity came here for support and that is what I tried to give her. I think by moving the issue to where the "problem" came from should either not be discussed or at least moved to another thread. It's not fair to Trinity's feelings to discuss issues other than what she originally posted about.

GH, you sent me a PM and I deleted it unread because I was not interested in reading whatever it was you had to say to me at that time. If that means the system deleted it, I'm sorry. Have you checked your Outbox? It's probably still there. It only moves from Out to Sentbox once the recipient opens it. Since I never opened it (cuz I deleted it without reading it), it's probably still there.

Furthermore, GH, you can distrust us (or me specifically) as much as you'd like. The longer you keep saying "I know for a fact what the S/CLs are doing in private" the less I trust you. For all I know, you could be a top-notch hacker, able to get into areas you don't belong. You're not stupid. To use the word fact means something to you. And to me, that means you've either read it for yourself by cricumventing system protocols or have been copied/pasted on things taken out of context that were none of your business to begin with, which means there's at least one other person who should not be trusted.

Whatever the case is, however it is that you came into possession of these so-called facts, the level of accusation and blame flying around from your fingertips really does seem to be a clear-cut case of projection. "If I blame everyone else for being untrustworthy and deceitful and gossipy, then no one will look at me for the very same activities."

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One of the people who have posted in this very thread came right out and told more than one person on the SCL team "We sit around and talk about (this person) in PM, compare notes, laugh at their antics and just watch (the person) self-destruct in amazement." There's no need to read PMs when one of the players freely admits to the behaviour!

People with loose lips tend to sink ships. It's for this very reason that I've lived in accordance with the words my father drilled into my head at an early age: only do & say what you want the whole world to know because there's no such thing as a secret. Somebody somewhere is bound to let something slip. If someone was so willing to throw themselves under the bus, it's not much of a stretch that others would get dragged under the very same bus with them.

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It also strikes me as ironic and curious that folks would be so concerned with the security of PMs when the topic is gossip. If people aren't gossiping, how on earth would the readability of a PM even remotely relate to Trinity's emotional response to being talked poorly about behind her back?

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All of this aside, I want to be perfectly clear: If you hate it here so much, if you don't trust the leadership of BPDR, you really need to leave. Why stay in a place where you're not happy? Why make the rest of the group unhappy right along with you? It's one thing to try to be an instrument of change but it's another to tilt at windmills and shake your fists at city hall, repeating yourself like a broken record. Some things cannot and will not be changed.

If you don't trust BPDR, you need to leave. Period.

Bitching about your loss of trust won't bring the trust back. (Will it?)

Bitching about the lack of trust doesn't seem to be changing anything for the positive. (Does it?)

Right now, all that seems to be happening is the spread of negativity and idle speculation with vague accusations that can't be substantiated. This is not healthy or productive behaviour and it needs to stop.

So either ya'll stop it yourselves (by finding a new place, taking what you can from here & ignoring the rest or just letting go of the suspicions) or it will be stopped for you (asked to leave.)

Hate me, despise me, revile me - whatever. Just get back on track, folks.

In the simplest terms:

1 Did this happen here on BPDR?
[ ] Yes.
[ ] No.

If the answer is no, cool, move on. If not:

2 How did you learn that others were talking behind your back?
[ ] I don't really, I am just assuming and thus causing myself unnecessary pain.
[ ] Someone else told me about it. (Tattletale issues-triangulation issues with the tattletale.)
[ ] As an SCL, I am able to intercept PM's and read them. (Which brings up others pain on here and hurt, not to mention vulnerability. Where is the 'reasonable expecation of privacy' in SCL's having the ability to read others' PMs?)

Calista, I sent an SLC a REPLY PM that sat in my "outbox" for a couple of days. Then it just dissappeared. No copy on my end what I wrote. It was gone. How is that possible? An oversight in the program? Or do SCL's have the ability to intercept, read and then delete PM's just as they do posts? I'v watched SCL's move threads, lock threads, delete and edit posts. Is it a far stretch then, after my experience with the PM, to think that SCL's can do the same with PM's?

Honestly, I think you would feel more hurt and vulnerable if I had the authority to censure you.

I was PM'd by someone (SCL) that "BFG really wants to come back but can't because she isn't ready."

I see that for the subtle, underhanded threat that it is because what does BFG have to do with ME? I couldn't even remember who BFG was. Then it hit me.

Hurt and vulnerable, maybe even a bit paranoid? You betcha. I got a full frontal attack in the form of PM's from an SCL on here.

"The fish stinks from the head".

Precisely. There are no secrets. That includes on BPDR. No, I am not a 'hacker' and I'm fairly certain you'd know if I were.

How do I know? Most likely the same reason that Trinity knows.

Nope, the PM is GONE. How can that be? Is there someway to put an ignore this person(s) in PM's? I could have lived my whole life without getting any PM's from you, Ash. I wanted to be left alone, but no, you had to bring your attack on me into the PM arena.

Consider yourself the source of my hurt, paranoia and mistrust of BPDR and it's leadership team. Don't worry, I don't take it personally and I am moving on. You are not going to cause me anymore needless suffering. You have absoutely zero, nada, nil impact on my RL.

Or could it be some glitch in server maintenance? Some technical issue that we don't even have control over? As if THAT'S never happened before...I seem to recall a time when whole threads would pretty much disappear (or show in triplicate). I know most of that's been worked out, but all of it? I don't know - I'm not all that technically inclined.

I've been talked about plenty in my life. I was the weirdo in school, the bitch at the club, the drunk at work. I've been the "queer" in the straight bar and the "breeder" at the gay bar. Sometimes it's been so preposterous as to almost amusing. Sometimes it's been very hurtful and mean-spirited. Some of it came from total strangers, and some of it came from people I considered my closest friends.

I am involved with several support groups...and there's always the fear that "somebody" is going to talk about me. AA may stand for "Alcoholics Anonymous", but it's not so anonymous when you've been seeing the same people at meetings for three or four years. When my BF and I first started dating, we caused a serious scandal in the gay AA community. After all, Bi only counts when it's the "gay half"...Whatever...And people were talking about us. Oh, were they talking. Some of it really hurt. People who I thought were some of my closest friends were campaigning to kick us out of the gay meetings because we were "straight" now. People who had held my hand through my first year of sobriety were telling others that I should be forced out of the only support I had known.

Yeah, that stuff hurts. I can blow off people who don't know me a lot easier than I can shake off someone I care about. And it isn't fair and it isn't right - but I can't change them. I can't MAKE them stop. All I can do is choose my own response, my own exposure, my own course of action. Am I in the wrong? Sometimes, and I have the option to try to improve the situation. Or am I OK?

I've learned over time to walk through it. It tells me a lot more about people I thought I knew and it can help me galvanize my self-esteem, in some upside-down way. Let them talk about me. Better someone who can handle it than some poor kid who can't. The world is full of people, and they aren't always going to be nice.

Oh. My. God. You are outright certifiable, woman.



Holy crap. Seriously, if you really & truly think I was subtly threatening you or attacking you by saying that, you need way more help than a mere message board can provide.

I said what I did to show you that: even though someone ends up banned, it's not because it's a personal vendatta, it's not an agenda, it's not retaliation, it's not petty or narcissistic. It hurts me when someone is banned. I want EVERYONE to be here and enjoy being here and get value from being here. EVERYONE. Some people, though, just aren't ready to be here and it HURTS ME that they're not ready. That they can't yet enjoy the benefits BPDR has to offer. That they're not yet ready to open themselves up to recovery work.

And from all of that, the only thing you've seen is that I was threatening you?

Good lord in heaven, woman.

You're just too much.

I'm astounded. Astounded.

You are so far outside the realm of reality I am having difficulty comprehending the ways in which your brain manages to twist every-damn-thing.

Flabbergasted & astounded.

You have a chip the size of Montana on your shoulder about me and you've painted me charcoal midnight tar black with oil-based paint that will likely never come off. I can't possibly hope to be seen for the person I actually am in the face of this level of distortion and twisted thinking.

For god's sake, GH.

I'm completely at a loss ... truly and completely. Astonishing, astounding, flabbergasted, stunned, amazed ... this is by and far the largest case of distortion I have ever seen.

I really feel like I'm in Oz. I get it now. I knew it then when I first heard the term but you've really proven to me in no uncertain terms what it's like to be on the receiving end of a Boderline distortion campaign.

Wow.

Good luck to you at that new FORUM on MSN, GH. Seriously. I hope you get some benefit from that place. I hope they manage to last longer before you paint them black.

WOW.

Is that really necessary Ash? I mean, come on. Are you reacting to me or responding?

That's a response. I am sharing my honest opinion.

If the level of your distortions is that bad, a message board alone won't help what ails you.

To say that my words were an attack and a subtle threat is, IMO, certifiable. There's no basis in reality for that. It's so far outside my understanding of how the addition of two and two happens that I am unable to fathom how you're coming up with seventy-three.

It makes no sense whatsoever to me and if that's how you're truly seeing the world (specifically me) you need something more than a message board or a FORUM on MSN -- you need serious help to get back in touch with reality where 2 + 2 = 4.

I cannot read p.m.'s and I'm a SCL. Nik said this before also. Should we all line up while you get out the hot lights and the thumbscrews, GH?

Geez la-weez. Can't we move past this already?

I'm sorry. That was unnecessary (what I said).

GH: Can you take a breath and maybe we all can do the same and remember that the world will still be on its axis tomorrow and still spinning. All of us are going to be OK.

An atmosphere of distrust can cause people to act out in frustration, (like I just did :shysmile ), or become paranoid or whatever, but none of us are Ingrid Bergman (sp?) and we are not in production of a new version of Gaslight, so we all need to give each other a break I think.

Doing my anxiety-reducing diaphrametic (sp?) breathing ....

Holy crap, Jilly! Now didn't you tell me you are a "non"??? If so, I'm afraid you are ineligible for a meltdown and will just have to stand by and watch the rest of us start to drool. Do you remember the scene from "Cuckoo's Nest" where the uprising started??? I just hope we don't end up on YouTube!

I am really sorry at the turn this thread has taken. I was so interested in Trinity's post and to having a discussion about it. It never occurred to me who was gossiping about her or from where, and it doesn't matter to me. It's none of my business. Why even assume it was here at BPDR? Why can't we have a civil discussion without bringing up issues that have nothing to do with Trinity's feelings about the original topic? Why are we here in the first place? Certainly not to cast stones and throw accusations around. Come on.......

Oh, stop it, GH. If you want to be a part of the conversation, speak using your own voice. Honestly, I don't know why you stick around.

GH:

Twice I thought that people were trying to drive me around the bend and I still think they were. It scared me, bc I began to believe what was happening inside myself.

I was NOT crazy and neither are you. I think there have been errors and miscommunication all around, but don't buy into what your head may be telling you, i.e. the things that are scary.

Imagine that everything you think and believe is true. You are and would still be OK right?

Try to center back into yourself and say; "you know, I may not ever be completely satisfied that this is this and that is that, but I'm still OK and won't let my emotional mind run away with me.

Do you see what I'm saying? It is not necessary to make yourself feel like you are losing it bc you still have doubts or whatever. What I would do is assume the worst of whatever you believe and then say, "OK, now what do I need to be OK?" Stay, leave, take a break ... anything but continuing to spin, bc that only hurts you, ya know?!

People can say whatever they want, but if you know that you are solid within yourself, you are OK. It is when the nagging doubts come and we believe we have to 'prove' something or lose are sanity, that we artificially create very high stakes, that can be very detrimental to our mental health.

People that are super-sensitive and super-vigilent to their environment can believe that what they sense is 100% true all of the time. I consider myself in that group, but sometimes I really am wrong and, even if I'm not, it is in my best interest, for my own sanity and peace of mind, to let a thing go in terms of "I know so I must prove" X or Y belief, ya know?!

Also, a lot of this heightened stuff does come from our backgrounds, right? You've said in the past that you tend to want to always right any perceived wrong. It was only AFTER MY CRACKUP that I learned there is wisdom in picking ones' battles carefully, and is churning yourself up over and over about this worth it really?

Like I said, assume for the sake of your evaluative process that everything you can imagine possibly being true, is, and then simply decide if you can stay just the same. Then you don't have to keep internally and externally keep battling with the outward 'evidence' to the contrary and the people offering it.

To do otherwise and hope that things are going to be different if you just bloody yourself and others up enought is magical thinking, which can be its own interminable loop = at least that has been my experience.

It really is like me being so positive about things with my bro and my childhood and him presenting over and over a completely diametirc view to my own. After awhile, I know that there is just no upside in continuing to torment myself over it/wanting to vindicate or validate my own beliefs/recollection of experiences and reality itself. If I let myself keep doing that, than I may really run the risk of driving myself more bats than I already am and my bro. will still believe the exact same things and accuse me/brush off any culpability as me being a nut job anyway.

Do you see how this can be being amplified from your background (and even ongoing) triggers. The intense/seeminly life-or-death feeling of being proven correct about whatever. This can be turned off by you by making the decision to believe what you believe and allowing others to believe what they believe (and usually the Cosmic truth of things lay somewhere in the middle anyway) and then permit yourself ... make the decision to have that be OK.

Does that make any sense?

Regards,

Candle

GH, funny enough, i was thinking about what candle already said. mine was posted in another thread, but it was about my in laws and how they always talk about me and everyone else behind my/their back (s). then one always has to say just enough so i know they are doing it. its a game. otherwise, why say anything about it? they want you to know they are doing it, but not enough to really face you and get it out in the open. pure game. mind fucks. kid stuff.

what i did, and with this stuff on the board also, is i just dont care anymore. so im talked about? i would suggest whoever is doing it or imagining things about me needs a life and more interesting subjects than me. i dont know whether pms or read or not, i tend to think at least someone here can if they choose, but i dont care. i dont put anything in them anymore anyways. nothing personal. but whats the point of using energy to fight it? do you really think a person is gonna stand up and say i robbed that bank? lol.

i am, like you, one who wants to right the wrongs of the world. unfortunately, we cant right every one. are you sure your not mixed up with something inner child? intense emotions almost always are.

i care so much for you, GH. we have so much in common. but this just isnt worth the shit. ya know? it really isnt. no one is going to say what you want to hear. you know they wont. the very problem of the secretcy of the leadership is a issue for me and you. but honestly, do we really care in the long run? do we? should we? let it be. let it be how it is. its no skin off us.

imho*** ...

and jim, that was a mean post to write to GH. ...very cruel...and not useful at all to her. it hurt me to read it. i think your capable of much more than that. this line.."""Honestly, I don't know why you stick around.""". hell, that stabbed at me just reading it. how unnecessary. way beneath you.

imho again*

((GH)) hang in there.

No, Candle & Jody, I am not crazy.

Just because Ash posts nasty shit about me does not make it true. THIS Is a forum, a board where no one can ever really know the real ME. No one on the Board can dictate my real life to me, ever.

And unless Ash got her Doctorate degree in the past 2 years and has practiced therapy, psychology, psychiatry, who the hell is she to say that I am certifiable?

Answer: She can't, she doesn't know, she's NEVER even met me for gawd's sake.

Mobilene wrote:

Why do YOU? You rarely post or offer any suggestions. You are paranoid that your X-wife is spying on you on here.

That was cruel and beneath you. Just as Ash's post in another thread was cruel and beneath her. What, can't be adult enough to say, "OK, you have your perception, I have mine. We disagree." No, better to make a nasty accusation regarding my sanity.

People can say whatever the hell they want to about me, it doesn't make it true.

If you knew me in RL, worked with me, even lived with me, you would have a totally different concept of the person who is GH. And in RL is where it really, truly, fucking counts, right?

And you can keep saying things about Ash, directly and indirectly (as with the post I responded to earlier), but it doesn't make it true.

I would think that if you were interested in you having your opinion and others having theirs, you would not keep saying over and over that you think Ash has NPD. You have made your thoughts on that quite clear; your opinion is widely known.

It appears from here that you have an agenda to get Ash to admit, or perhaps to get enough others here to go along, that Ash is NPD. I do not understand why you would do this.

jim

Whatever, Jim.

This stops here now. With me. Don't care. This has zero to do with ME and my RL.

Calista, can you please lock the thread now?

Thanks, Calista.

Gossip is an ugly, nasty thing. It's one of the very core reasons the Four Agreements came into existance. Don Miguel Ruiz recognized the power of these hateful types of words, how they can harm, how they can poison and destroy. It is one of the reasons we have the Four Agreements as a foundation at BPDR. We are encouraged to use our words wisely. I may not always succeed in that goal but I hope I will never give up trying.

Usually in a Borderline setting, the words we use are designed to hurt - others so they can feel the pain we feel or ourselves so that we can further justify our own actions. A lot of us struggle with the negative self-talk tapes that play in our heads, causing us anxiety, heightening fear, exacerbating situations, pushing us further down. This is a form of gossip as well-when we allow our inner selves to use words against our own selves.


How horrible it can feel when we've struggled so much to do a better job at avoiding using our words against ourselves only to have others use them against us, to reinforce the very things we've been struggling to get out from under inside ourselves.

We can hear our own words more loudly than the words of others - which could be positive or negative. If we turn up the volume of the (good, healthy, positive, soothing words) we feed ourselves, the volume of the disturbing, hateful, nasty words coming from others can be drowned out and/or neutralized. We cannot control the words others broadcast and we can't necessarily control the volume at which they broadcast those words. We can, however, choose to change the channel or distance ourselves from the source of the words or fill our ears with more soothing, appropriate sounds.

Remembering more of Ruiz's teachings, we're reminded that gossipy words from others are mere reflections of their own stories, rather than truthful indicators of our own stories. In one person's story, I may be a raging monster that tramples Tokyo breathing fire. In another person's story, I may be an emotionless robot devoid of humor or empathy. In yet another person's story, I may be a brilliant, compassionate, insightful person who sees people exactly as they are.

If one person chooses to gossip about my fire-breathing with another person who chimes in about my emotionless automotan nature, so be it. Right? Those are their stories. They're hurting themselves more than they're hurting me because they've chosen to use their words for hurtful purposes and they're writing their own stories, not mine.

My previous words were hurtful, as I was hurting. I don't like or appreciate when someone attempts to define my reality for me and attribute cruel, hurtful things to me. I forgot the founding premises of BPDR and I not only tuned in to the hurtful gossip being posted but I also turned up the volume & took exception to the broadcast in general.

I forgot that I can turn on my iPod and listen to things that are less hateful, less destructive, less nasty. I forgot that I define my reality, not anyone else. I forgot that critics aren't playwrights.

I forgot that nastiness does not need to be taken personally, that it can be deflected back to the sender, that it's merely a manifestation of the pain, confusion and bitterness of the person putting it forth. It's the pageantry of that play's author. I don't have to sit for the performance.

Thanks, Calista.