BPDRecovery.com: Forums

I was talking to someone tonite and, lol, they commented I was finding the positive side to BPDR. Funny, I feel anything but positive now. I feel anything but like BPDR is a place for me to 'get' something from. And, I am angered and saddened and disappointed and hurt by that.

Atm, everything, and I do mean everything about BPDR is questionable to me. For a long time I've seen a double standard and while we can all agree no one or group can police a board this big all the time, there's been some things that have stood out clearly- and repeatedly. I think atm those are being addressed (or at least the attempt is being made)- oh, lol, I spose that is a positive- perhaps that is this person meant that I will acknowledge such. I don't however, have much 'faith' that it will make an improvement. I guess after a year of seeing this go on, I struggle to believe improvements are and will be coming. Hard to want to believe yet every fiber says - oh but boy are you letting yourself in for trouble.

For the past 3-4 weeks I have been trying to hold on to what sounds useful, helpful and that aligns with what I believe, while at the same time trying to challenge myself on other things that I feel my back rise up against. Damn has that been hard.

The ROE's were thrown at me as one would throw rules at another. I was told my intentions were not what they were and that they should have been something else. I was told that I had no right to start a conversation because of one prior interaction with the person that went wrong. I will not waiver in my belief that I dont need to judge a person so quickly or harshly and base it on one prior interaction. But, now, after I've had the roe's thrown in my face, we are now saying they are not rules only something to consider. They were not presented in such a fashion, however. I'm having a really hard time reconciliing how one minute they are rules and the next they are not.

There are people here that get my back up more than not when I read their words. I do my best to avoid- as others have said that usually works quite effectively- yet there are always times when that is near impossible and we all know the struggle to bite your tongue at those times or to exit the thread. Later I will read something from them that makes a lot of sense and so again a struggle ensues. Trying to figure out how to weigh in on that person. Quite a teeter totter. Quite an experience. Keep looking for the positive yet then boom, a repeat of the old and I'm back swinging- confused and wanting so badly to steady myself.

I feel as tho the basic tenants and purpose of BPDR has been shaken to the core. All of us- me especially, atm - being very judgemental. I think this is the one thing I do not understand. Is it ok to be judgemental in the name of recovery? Is being judgemental a manner of finding the grey? What's the positive side in that- protection? of myself? against all that I cannot comprehend- which is tons here lately. How can one be judgemental and also be impeccable with our word? How can one not make assumptions and be judgemental? (Sometimes I justify this to myself that the judgement is related to a core value of mine- but, then I still have to weigh in on the assumption- have I twisted thinking going on?)
I guess this too is trying to find the positive. But ya know, I question at what point trying to find the positive becomes an excuse for making something bad ok.

I'm confused. I'm confused at 'dont take things personally' as an excuse for us to not treat each other with respect. I'm confused at 'work on yourself' but it's ok to challenge another - where is the line; who says? I'm confused at those of us who drop into threads, make a comment about the person or behavior. I've questioned myself lately on that one.
I'm confused at the contradictions in all of us and at what point are those actually 'us' vs contradictions in / of us - at what point do we chose to work on them or ignore them as 'glitches'.

BPDR was a community that, I thought, was about ownership; responsibility; and changing behaviors. I knew I would get challenged but I expected it would be done in the spirit of caring and compassion- maybe not for 'me' per se, but for the struggle of overcoming behaviors that keep us stuck. BPDR was 'ok', not great, for me before all the recent shit that has gone down. Atm, BPDR is riding that teeter totter and swing high and fast- side to side. The contradictions of it huge. Every day I read read something that gets my back up; gets every inch of me crawling and in the next thread I'll read something that gives me a wee bit of hope. I can't stablize it yet. I can't find the positive. Does it come when the commotion dies down. Does it come when I finally hear what is ringing inside my head and turning my stomach over. (tho really can I expect that to ever come?) Does it come when I finally chose to step back onto the board and deal with my own stuff? (Do I trust the community enough?)

BPDR is really struggling atm, as I see it. But I am really struggling with BPDR. Reconciling what it professes with what I've observed. Atm I am really struggling with ownership of ones behavior - what that is; what that means; when is it ownership vs an excuse. And do I hold that both for myself and for others- do I weigh in on them the same, or is their an undercurrent in which I hold them in a different light than I hold myself?

I think after these past few weeks I really get what working on myself needs to be about; I get the importance of staying self-focused. I also get that I will continue to want to let someone know when they behaved crappily towards me- respect and fairness. A couple of my basic tenants.
Is this the positive?

I guess why I Feel so upset and shaken and hurt is that the reason I came here - to see the 4 agrees; the 5 steps; the untwisting in action- have not been in action too much. I think too much has gone on in the name of recovery 'happy healthy living' that has been damaging; attacking; criticizing. Sometimes it seems we are all too focused on helping each other with what we think we know / have learned, only to be shown shortly thereafter that living the tenants of BPDR is not as easy as we thought. We can screw up as readily as the next guy. We can screw up worse than the next guy. We can spout the agrees and twists and tenants, but living them really takes constant work. I suppose this is a positive too- seeing that knowing them- reciting them- being able to throw them back and forth to others doesn't mean squat.

I've had my belief in 'recovery' shaken. I'm ready to say let me stay as I am; let me be ill. I question myself as much as ever- and it was questioning myself that brought me back to bpdr. The question was in regard to intent. If my intention is not to harm, does that make it ok? The answer before I came here was no. My view today is the same. No. Intention isn't enough. That is why I came to BPDR, I thought with their tools I could change this. Today I really don't think so. I don't think their tools teach anything about intent. I think it is overlooked. And this is what I am so shaken up about. I've lost faith.

The positive side gets very dim when it's held up to my loss in faith in what BPDR is about and professes. What's more is, I am not willing to so readily say ok, move on then. And, this, lol, has me think of someone's tag line- the pain/joy- take the same amount of work.

I've got a ton of work to do around this.

To put things more clearly:

I came to BPDR because I weighed in on myself and told myself- screw intention; the behavior is wrong you need to learn to change the behavior.
Now I'm here, and I feel I am seeing the same thing- the behavior is wrong; but the intention was to do no harm, so I just apologize and all is ok. (and this isnt directed at a single soul, this is me finally figuring out why I am so friggin shaken about being around the board atm and why I am NOT believing in one thing it preaches).

So- if anyone can hear the delimia and has something to offer please do. I am really at a loss for what the 4 agrees, 5 steps and untwists are about.

Thanks,

Smilin

Hi Smilin',

I am not sure what you are looking for but here is my first reaction to this post...

Yes, it is scary that there has been so much "drama" around here lately - especially since this is supposed to be a "safe" place to come to heal and learn and share with others. On the other hand, we all suffer from - or live with people who suffer from - a disorder which is characterized by emotional dysregulation. I am actually not that surprised that tempers are flaring up about differences of opinion right now. I think what everyone really needs to do is step back (as IBF suggested) and think about why they got so riled up in the first place and what they can do to move on from the situation and get back to focusing on how they can best help themselves. There are going to be people who don't agree with you. There are going to be people who don't understand you. Sometimes someone doesn't understand where you are coming from but wants to try to help you anyway so they ask for clarification, which can be misinterpreted as criticism. I think overall everyone is getting too emotional and not being open enough to different points of view, different opinions, etc. If someone gives you advice that you don't like, just thank them anyway and don't take the advice.

I am getting a little off track here...

Ok, to really respond to you, YES it does bother me that this is supposed to be a place to learn how to "recover" from BPD and yet everyone's BPD traits seem to be running rampant lately. It does make me kind of lose hope for true "recovery" and does make me question whether it really is worth doing "the work" if there seems to be no real end in sight. But I got past those feelings by realizing that even if I will never really be "recovered" and even if no one here who claims to be "recovered" really is completely free of their BPD traits, I am still learning a lot about myself by participating in this board. I am gaining a lot by interacting with others who are going through the same difficulties I am and who really do "know" me - more so than I have ever felt anyone "knew" me before. So, don't let the drama get you down. Look at the positive side - we are all so much alike and we can relate to each other on some level that people who are not exposed to BPD can not relate to.

Hi Smilin~

I may ramble here as I have been reconciling some of this myself.

BPDR may be a mixed up place sometimes. I can be in a mixed up place sometimes myself. When I find that BPDR is triggering me rather than helping me, it is time for me to leave for a while.

BPDR does not define WHO I am. It doesn't define my core values or beliefs. I have done a lot of work on what my core values and beliefs are. One belief I have is to come from a place of love, consideration and caring for another. Sometimes, that is near impossible for me to do. It is at times like those that I have to "bite my tongue", sit on my hands, leave the thread, leave BPDR. If I find myself wanting to respond out of a place of anger, disrespect, then I'm probably triggered.

And yet, even with my core belief of treating others with consideration, courtesy and a basic respect, I sometimes "show my ass" instead. :booty I cannot blame that on BPDR or anyone on BPDR - that was just me behaving in a way that leaves me feeling "less than" about myself. I didn't treat the other with respect and that effects how much respect I feel for myself in how I handled the situation. To me, that is not happy, healthy living. I want to feel good about myself and how I handled a conflict.

I want people to call me on my stuff when they see it. That is a huge part of my recovery! Denial is such a powerful drug of sorts; but a necessary one to protect the part of my psyche that can't quite deal with it yet.

Yes, there are those on here who "attack" from a place of anger, and being triggered. Done that myself. Pretty sure I have the t-shirt (two or three) hanging in my closet.

I cannot control anyone on here but me. I can make suggestions to the S/CL's of BPDR but ultimately, they are the ones that make the decisions. Sometimes, honestly, I don't like the decisions made. But, hey, that is part of living and working within a community and making it work. I radically accept the decisions made to get along. Sure, it is a compromise, but compromising is finding that shade of gray.

There are some on here that I don't see eye to eye on a lot of things. There are some that no matter how hard I try, it seems that I cannot communicate clearly with them. Fortunately, those folks are few and far between. I tend to give those people a "wide berth" out of respect for them and to keep myself out of their "wake". I might tip my hat at them as we pass, but that's about all. (Yep, more sailing terms.)

If one of those people were to "call me on my stuff" out of a place of anger, I can chose to ignore it. To round file it and disengage. That is what I plan on doing in the future.

I've learned:

If BPDR gets a messed up, mixed up and in an unhealthy state, I can leave for a while.

If another on here is coming at me from a place of anger and malice, even, I can disengage from them and not take seriously what they are saying as they are most likely triggered (their stuff, not mine).

If I need to call someone on "their stuff" it is best to do it from a place of care and consideration.

If I find that I cannot come from that space, it is best for me to not post, leave the thread for a while.

That is where I am at presently. Kinda rambling...

NAM -

Tyvm for a thoughtful and encouraging reply. I was not looking for anything in particular. I needed to put down what was going on because for a week - actually more - I've been very upset over what I've seen on the board. And, I've tried like hell to stay out of most of the fray but have to say I've been oh-so-very-glad when some people have come out of the woodwork to speak up- it was needed, imo, because things have been and were headed down-hill- full tilt.

You said:



I'm sorry if I gave the impression, or even stated, that I believe one ever recovers. I went thru this last week, to myself, repeating how nope no one ever will. I just don't buy it. I see it like a cancer and/or an addiction. I don't believe those things pass. Ever.

But, yes, I did want to believe there was a way thru where I was over a year ago. I wanted to believe in the tools because I am a person who needs concrete stuff to wrap my self around.. I need to learn the cues of my behavior(s); I need to learn the tools (generic sense) to combat them; I need to know there is an end result - basically not doing those things that cause so much harm. so I guess I am saying the fact I thought these tools were a means and I'm now questioning those, I have to question everything I've set about doing- and look at what the next step is. Right now I am in a sifting phase.. a few days ago I was ready to throw it all out. So each time someone has said- which has been many of late- take the good, throw the rest - I keep questioning.. for awhile not much good was around. And it still feels that way, but I refuse to give up atm. Refuse to chuck it all because of a few situations.

GH wrote:



Yep, GH, totally agree. I never saw BPDR that way- at all, but I did think that I could see some gold nuggets within. I remember when I discovered BPD and began reading. I read so much it was sickening. I remember reading 2 or 3 texts on BPD and how when I could steal a nugget from this and another from that and it felt so good to pick those pieces up. That is what coming to BPDR was about - a little bit of hope of another avenue.

And now I too am rambling and am on lunch, so I ahve to return. Ths post had no real end, or beginning. I wanted to acknowledge the two of you who took time to respond. And offer me some ways I can deal with these mixed feelings.

And I want to try to sort thru, and find for myself what I do hold about BPDR. I may have an inkling regarding a few things, but something else needs to get worked back into the fold- into my views and beliefs on what I want in recovery.

The one thought I have...

We aren't going to see here people doing everything right. We aren't going to see people being an example for each other. People come here and post because they are trying to work stuff out. So we see lots of people struggling, learning, doing stuff wrong. We don't so much see folks doing stuff right, because people don't tend to come and post about what they did right. Maybe it would be good if folks more tended to post, "here's how I sucessfully used [whichever tool]". But those times aren't when people naturally tend to post.

What about the examples of those who have recovered? What about the person I met online (at a different message board, but she did sometimes post to BPDR years ago) who years ago had been diagnosed with BPD, and had treatment for it, and who came to BPD forums because she was working with children with BPD or BPD traits, and due to recovery, she no longer had a sense of what having BPD is like?

What about me? My reccovery is real. I've truly changed. Something has healed inside. It's a permanent change. It's something beyond learning new skills. How do you reconcile that with your belief that recovery isn't possible?

There are some things about me that I can't change. I have to accept those and deal with them. I have strong feelings. That won't change. It's something I've learned to deal with.

But there are things that have changed. That's real. True real healing of hurts. Just like a broken leg can heal, my emotional wounds have healed. That's real.

I don't want to get into what is and isn't BPD. But I will say, yes, those of us here, we have things about us that won't pass. You are right, in my opinion, to think that there are such things. But we also have wounds that can heal. It's a matter of understanding the steps to healing, and being willing to take those steps. I have chosen that path.

For me, that healing has been the central part of my recovery. Yes, I've done a lot of learning skills, and a lot of learning about myself. And those have been important. They've even helped me in the path to healing. But, for me, the healing is the meat. The wounds that I had, that have now healed, are in the past. Not something that as "passed" like if it just went away. Something that has healed. Nothing going away, but rather something changing. Like that broken leg doesn't go away, rather, it heals.

But you do get something from BPDR, if nothing else than a place to release your words to be read/heard by others. What do you want to "get" from BPDR? Recovery? Friendship? If you define what you want, perhaps the community can rally around to give you what you want. Expectations cannot be met if they are not expressed to those who are expected to fulfill them.

The double-standard thing sucks big time. I believe there is work being done to eliminate this although there may not be perfection, I'm hopeful there will be vast improvement.

I've been at BPDR for going on 7 years (amazing but true) and I've seen ebbs and flows with the community. Some people come in and hang out for a while and then go away without another word. Then there are those who come and go and come back again. Some visits are brief and some are like an extended stay. Through it all, new things are added and other things are retracted. The cycle remains that people who come here are working through issues/problems and those individuals are either ready to accept that change can happen from within or they aren't. No matter how many words are splashed onto a monitor, the only change that can be effected comes from within.

BPDR is a community where tools and advice are offered. Everything at BPDR is take what works and let go of the rest. The community is not for everyone. That is not to say you, or anyone else should go, it is a fact. Some people think the Ten Forms of Twisted Thinking is bullshit, but others steadfast believe they are the gospel. Who's right, who's wrong? Both. Each person has their own need for that specific tool.
This my friend is what we call life.

I can empathize with the confusion regarding the ROEs. The team is working at a new name so they don't come across as "rules" but more so an average guideline of information or as Calista calls them, a motives check.

This sounds like you're trying to find the grey in people, which is an excellent thing. An individual has good and bad. No one can be all good or all bad all the time. It's wonderful that you find glimmers of good in a person who you once could only see bad. (I am not saying you're judging this person.)

Are you being judgmental or are you evaluating what's going on and applying the situation to your own personal set of life filters? Are you taking the chaos reeling through BPDR and seeing a glimpse of what life was like at a certain time in your life that creates a felt reaction [something that we react to without knowing why we are reacting; natural gut instinct; traumatic experience flashback]? Perhaps you're not actually judging someone or something but rather seeing the parts within yourself you're wishing to eliminate. I may be way off base, but many psychologists will say that we dislike in others what is evident in ourselves and yet we avoid our own behaviors.

Not taking things personally is not an excuse to treat others with disrespect. It is critical that we work on ourselves as individuals before we step in to help others fix their character flaws. If I were having a meltdown, it wouldn't be good of me to turn my attention to Calista's meltdown [just an example] when I need to focus on my own behavior/issues.

Life is full of contradictions or catch 22s. Each situation, although presenting with similar characteristics is unique and requires a full evaluation. There are 256 different types of BPD, the same "cure" isn't going to work for every facet. Monolo Blanc makes great shoes, but there are several sizes because each woman's foot is unique.

Unless you are willing to take a risk, you will continue to as "what if." You can run yourself ragged trying to think up every conceivable scenario for what may or may not happen if you try this or that, but truly, unless you risk sharing yourself, others will not share themselves. The saying of you must love yourself before you can love another is really true.

We may never be able to reconcile what's going on at BPDR. However, we can move past this and move on.

I take responsibility for my behavior and my behavior only. I take ownership of my words. If I harm you, I want to know because I want to correct that error. You can only own what is yours. You can only control you.

YES! This is positive! Knowing what you want is 1/2 the battle.

Yep, yep, yep! You said it. Working toward happy healthy living is hard as hell. It's a lifestyle choice. It's a way of being. Like an earthquake, we think the ground is stable then it moves. We have to re-stabilize ourselves because we cannot control the movement of the ground.

You have a choice. Work on recovery or don't. It's a process and it's constant. Questioning yourself is also continuous. Intent does have a part in it. If you do not intend harm but cause harm then you should make amends. If you do not intend harm but continue to cause harm then you should reevaluate if you want to cause harm or what behavior you're exhibiting that continues the harm to another. [these are examples, I am not implying you are causing anyone harm or that you intend to cause harm.]

It is hard to see the silver lining amongst the dark clouds. It takes risk, faith, and perseverance.

We all do.

Growing means some confusion. I'm not sure if this ever ends. I believe there is a place one gets to where things become easier - where they have "made it" somewhere, and things are less confusing, because through trial-and-error they have found enough that works to where if they want to scoot through the day, it's pretty easy to. I think that growth will always mean some confusion sometimes. What you are expressing is a place most of us have been, at one time or another.

I keep in mind that it doesn't matter where someone else is standing in their own recovery or what they choose to involve themselves with. It doesn't matter the mistakes another has made. What matters is me and the contribution I am making toward myself right now.

Recovery is an effort. Finding the positive is an effort - one I must be aware of daily. It's there, I just have to make sure I notice it.