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Last year my son was bitten in the face whilst playing with a friends dog. He needed stitches to sew his bottom lip back together and in the corner of his mouth. It was a beloved family pet, and they had been warned about having it on the trampoline with them. We let it drop and figured the owners could decide for themselves whether or not they wanted an animal that was capable of biting a child.

Fast forward to the weekend. My son is minding his own business, walking past a neighbours place. They had their gate open and their German Shepherd dog came running out after him. It bit him really hard on his thigh/bum area, leaving a visible bite wound, grazing and severe bruising. The owner said "I'm sorry. He's a bit nippy." This time, I decided to take action. The dog lives next to a primary school bus stop and it could have just as easily been a small child that it decided to pounce on.

Animal control came and took a statement and photos of my sons injuries. They lifted the dog immediately and took it into quarantine. We have to go in to do a formal indentification later today. A positive ID will most probably result in the dog being put down and possible fine for the owner.

Whilst, I am glad that a potentially dangerous animal is being removed so that it cannot injure another child, I also feel bad for the owners. A couple with no kids, whose 2 pet dogs are their kids. I'm imagining being in their shoes. If my beloved Coalle was to bite somebody, I'd be really upset about having to have her put down. I'd do it, but I know it would be hard on the family.

I'm wondering how I should deal with this? Not owning their feelings would be a good place to start & reminding myself that I am doing this for the safety of other children in the area, including my own. Have you ever had to deal with a situation like this?

Ugh, that's a really tough spot for you to be in (nevermind your son!) It's really unfair of them to have put you in that situation through improper training and fencing of their "dog-child."

When the officers came by to take your statement, did you tell them of the previous lip-incident? Since it was unreported, they may or may not make a judgment call on whether or not that factors into their decisions. Since the dog is currently in quarantine, I'm guessing that if the dog attempts to bite them and shows continuous aggression, they will likely put the dog down regardless of the previous lip-incident.

Please try to remember that you initially did them a kindness by not reporting the first incident - which ultimately resulted in the second incident / harm to your son.

"A bit nippy" is a far cry from puncturing skin and requiring stitches. That's an aggressive dog. If the owners were not able to properly train the dog to refrain from biting, they should have at least taken proper constraint steps to ensure that no harm would come to anyone else. Since they failed to do either of those things AND failed to "take the hint" after the lip-incident, they've essentially brought this on themselves to some degree.

As the owner of five dogs who are not necessarily "people friendly" or properly socialized (though I do think that with five, the pack or mob mentality takes over), I go out of my way to ensure that perimeters are secure and that visitors are not accosted. We've only ever had one dog that broke skin and that was after we had taken specific precautions and issued explicit instructions to the guy on how he needed to let the dog "get to know him." The guy outright ignored the instructions and (yes, my fault that I didn't grab up the dog in time) he made a threatening gesture / posture to the dog who nipped (truly a nip, one small shallow puncture, no stitches, no tearing, not even a bandage needed). In that situation, the visitor was clearly the aggressor and antagonizer but we've known since then that if he were to bite anyone else, WE would put him down ourselves even though he's a giant love muffin with the two of us and those people he already knows and trusts.

It's hard to be a dog owner sometimes but there are responsibilities associated with it - things that "child-parents" don't have to deal with. A child-parent doesn't have to worry that their kid will be given a lethal injection if he gets in a fight that results in stitches whereas a dog-parent does. It's a fact of life in dog-parent world. The neighbors should be aware of that from Day One and if they weren't before, I'm sure they are now.

In short, it sucks but not your fault. I'd say put that energy into your son's recovery and hope the relations with the neighbors don't strain to the point of ugly escalation.

Has the dog ever shown aggression before? Do they commonly leave the dog where it can escape the fence and potentially hurt kids (or anyone)? Is the dog obedience trained? Was your child really 'just walking by' or was he teasing the dog? Does your child know how to respond to an aggressive dog? What are the owners of the dog prepared to do to ensure this does not reoccur?

It sounds like you are in a very tough situation. I would caution you to not let the experience of the first bite influence your decision on this one, assuming they really aren't related (it sounded like it was two different dogs). I worked as a vet tech for 12 years, training dogs on the side. I saw this situation many times. I don't mean to sound harsh, but it usually isn't just the fault of the dog owner although I wholehartedly believe that dog owners have a responsibility to contain and train their dogs. If the dog bit him on the back of his leg, was he running (thereby activating a prey drive)? Please don't misunderstand me, I am not saying this was your son's fault. They should keep the dog confined and train it not to 'nip'. I have very real problems with people who dismiss aggressive behaviours in dominant breeds for exactly this reason. I simply think we all need to be knowledgable of how to behave around dogs to not provoke behaviours. Very cause/effect. I just think there might be two sides to this.

I don't think that it is your job to protect the neighborhood from someone else's dog. If you want to ID the dog and have it put down for the safety of your family, that's very valid. You need to protect you and yours. Other people are theoretically doing the same. Don't own their pain. Their stuff. Just please think about why you really want to do that. Do you think it will happen again? What does your son think? Would he be upset or relieved? I'm not saying don't be empathic, just don't own it.

Best wishes. This is a tough one.

i have a german shep. she's my world. she's also a hyper-as-can-be dog, so that plus the german shep part = high maintenance dog. i know that and so i'm always keeping an eye on her.

i agree with what ash said. if they were warned already, then it's not your worry.

i would feel horrible if my dog EVER bit someone, esp. a child.

so, is this the same dog as the one before?

It looks like they're two different dogs. The first one was her son's friend's dog. The second dog was owned by an older couple. So the second dog owners could not have been warned about anything previously since it was the first dog who bit her son first.

well, that's a little different then. the neighbors had a gate, so i presume they have a fence. that's sort of responsible, right? i mean, at least they have a fence. were they aware that the gate was open?

that's a tough call. i doubt the investigators would really put a dog down if it was a little mishap. like the first time.

one of my sister's friends has an aggressive dog. has a fence. well, their neighbors had little french little poodle things and they kept crawling underneath the fence and the aggressive dog actually killed, not one of the little dogs, but two!!!

the little dogs kept crawling under the fence into the aggressive dog's yard, so it wasn't the aggressive dog owner's (my sister's friend's) fault, but still. it seems like that dog should be put down before this german shep, IF it was just a little mishap, first time.

I'm inclined to agree with Astilbe. If it was just a mishap and the owners of the dog are going to take steps that make sure it won't happen again (that is they take it seriously), maybe just a warning would suffice. Really, it is not up to us. And, is the dog really aggressive or were there other circumstances? GSD are herding breeds. They do 'nip'. Was this a nip or a bite? I love GSD, by the way. I don't think they are all aggressive. I have a herding breed, an Aussie, and I would be mortified if she ever bit anyone. I take steps, including socialization, to make sure that won't happen. I firmly believe in responsible pet ownership. But mistakes happen in life....AGhhhhh.

That's awful about the little dog Astilbe!

Also, another thought just occured to me. In my state, dogs that bite have to be quarentined (sp?) to ensure vaccines are current. Has this dog been vaccinated? They look for rabies in my state, but there is also a concern of distemper that can be passed to humans.

To clear up any confusion; The bites came from 2 different dogs and have different owners. The first incident occured whilst playing over at a friends house. My son's friend (who had been warned about winding up the dog) was playing with it on a trampoline. He asked my son to join them. The dog, I'm assuming was ticked off with the way it was being treated by my sons friend, turned on him and lunged at his face, when he got onto the tramp. It was a provoked attack, but unfortunately the non-provoker was the one who got injured. I let it slide, trusting that the owners would keep the dog restrained in the future should other children go over there to play. I also was aware that taking action could result in the family pet being put down and the distress that that would cause the kids. I left it in their hands to decide the fate of the dog, and focused on my son, his injuries, his needs. After the attack, I gave him the council brochure on "how to avoid dog bites for people under 12.) He's well aware of the do's and don'ts around animals. We have a dog of our own. He frequently spends time with and walks a friends Boxer dog.

The 2nd incident (and now I only have my sons version of events, but I'm inclined to believe him) is walking home from his friends place, the gate was open, the owner in the driveway. The dog came out, the owner called it back (no ears-no obedience.) My son kept walking, told it to "go home" and then it bit him (side on on the thigh area.) The owner apologised, said something about it being "sad for the dog. He's a bit nippy."



Here's the photo:

I live in New Zealand. Rabies isn't an issue in this country. I'm going to see what the animal control people say when we go do the formal ID. It may well be that a warning is the only neccessary intervention at this stage, which would mean having the animal fenced, the gate secured, and the law requires that any visitors (meter readers etc) to a home have access to a least one doorway without the threat of an animal. Our own dog, when outside is restricted to the back section of our property to comply with this. I would be happy with this, if it's my decision that decides the fate of the animal.

i know you did the right thing. in texas, we have a first bite free law. meaning someone can be torn up and nothing is done at all about it. you cant sue to make the owners pay medical bills. a child can be ruined for life with no repercussions. a second bite you go to court, for months, and the sheriff is responsible for the owner muzzling his dog, having insurance, blah blah. which never happens. abuse a kid, no one cares. take a mans dog and its heaven help us all, WW3.

you took a dangerous, maladjusted dog off the streets. i applaud you. far too many have these dogs, which they profess to "love" and are not trained, or socialized, or even restrained.

they can kill, and few days go by without reading about a child killed by a dog or pack of dogs. with their owners dumbfounded, and astonished, "my dog just wouldnt do that". looking into history, usually the dog(s) have bitten or been aggressive and its the owners who have denied it more than once until tragedy strikes.

i applaud this action! and i am one who was bitten badly by a dog, broke my hand, 14 stitches, and the owner got away scot-free. i wonder every day if this dog will get a kid next time.

safe dogs=responsible owners.

i dont know your laws, i know here they wouldnt put a dog down for this. if it was mine, much as i loved it, i would have it put down anyways. eventually it will be the owner who is bit....and sounds like this owner has been, "a bit nippy" my ass. no one should allow a powerful dog to be "nippy". i knew to never "play fight" with my chows....

dont feel bad.

that's a bite, not a nip. i think jody is a **bit** biased, and it's understood. there is a whole population of people out there that just hate dogs.

i am not saying that dogs that bite are to be forgiven. absolutely not! and owners who treat their dogs like crap aren't to be forgiven either. i grew up with dogs, cats, horses, cows, you name it. a dog is another animal. they're not people although some think they are.

your neighbor tried to call it back, but obviously that didn't work. then, when your son told it to go home, it apparently didn't like that and was probably telling your son to go home too, but it bit your son, instead of yelling at your son. regardless, the dog's owner didn't have control of their animal.

when i go to the dog park, i'm amazed at how many different types of people own dogs. And I'm equally amazed at how many different types of dogs own people. there's a huge spectrum of dog people and person dogs. then, there are those who hate dogs b/c they are fearful of them. some don't like dogs b/c they're dirty. some don't like dogs b/c they're seen as "stupid" many different types of people either way. that is to say, if the dog wasn't able to be called back that one time, it doesn't mean that it's like that all the time. maybe it was time for dinner, time for the dog to be fed, maybe maybe maybe maybe..

it's a tough call there about what happens next. but, that was a bite, not a nip. it needed to be recorded/reported.

lol, ((A)) i am somewhat biased against dangerous animals. had that been her sons neck...or ear, or face.....i shudder to think of it.

anything that has shown the attitude to be able to hurt someone has no business loose. a small child could be killed. nothing is worth that. or my broken hand, which i still cant use right.

my chows were always leashed and muzzled if out in public, and in a locked gate-fenced yard at home. just not worth the chance of scarring a child for life over a "mishap". so im not against the dog,,,just the owners who wont tend to their animals and put others in danger with their denial.

that dog went for the meat, even more dangerous as he wasnt just "playing" with a ankle. decent dogs know exactly how much pressure they exert and why.

i love animals, i have 3 dogs now. bred chows in the past, had a shepherd bought from the army when my son was little . it also NEVER ran loose in any form. that lady was actually standing there knowing her gate was open!!

but had one of them hurt someone, i woulda blamed myself forever. esp a kid.

i would hate for amanda to feel bad/guilty over doing something good for the city and children.

Amanda, I applaud your actions to educate your son after the 1st incident. that 1st incident sucks, by the way, that he got the result but did not provoke. I also would believe your son in this case, from what you just posted. It sounds like you are doing all the "right" things. It also sounds like the owner of the German Shepard Dog could learn a thing or two, but that's another story.... I guess I just want to say I'm sorry your in this position, but I think your handling it appropriately. It looks like a bite to me, too much force. I wasn't trying to challange you by asking if it was a nip or a bite. There is a difference, I just wanted clarification. That pic shows a bite. Thanks for going to the trouble of uploading it.

I have raised wolves and German Shepherds. I have also raised some high percentage wolf hybrids. Dogs are far more dangerous than wolves because they are so much quicker to bite. Wolves only attack what they intend to eat while dogs attack moving objects for amusement. Still, I had a sheriff shoot and kill one of my wolves once because she growled at him when he came on our property. She was loose with her pups since they got out of the pen while I was hospitalized and my husband could not coax them all back into the pen at once in order to shut them in again. Apparently someone had reported a "pack" of wolves but it was actually my wolf and a neighbor German Shepherd racing around our pasture. We did get a report that my wolf killed another neighbor's meat rabbits and that is highly likely but then another neighbor tried to blame my wolf for injuring his dog when it was his dog that went after my wolf. Wolves will tuck their tails and run from an aggressor or show their bellies while dogs will pick fights, even with an animal that is showing signs of submission. My wolf was trying to get away from the neighbor dog but when she was cornered she fought back and the dog ended up hurt since wolves are far more effective killers than dogs. It was hard for me to lose my wolf but it would have been even harder if she had ever hurt anyone. The only person she was ever aggressive with was a breeder who turned a hose on her every time she entered the wolf pen (she was boarding there to be bred with a male wolf) and then she just gave her a bruise on her arm without breaking the skin. At the time the woman was bit, she was visiting my wolf on our property and she entered the secured area where my wolf was in order to pick up a puppy to look at it (she was taking her "pick of the litter" in exchange for the stud fee). My wolf growled and gave her plenty of warning to put the pup down but she ignored the warning signals and continued to hold the crying pup until the bite prompted her to release the pup, which was what my wolf was trying to protect in the first place.

I think that all you can do in this situation is make a true and honest report and leave it at that. If the dog is to be put down, it will be because someone else made that decision based on factual information you provided. It looks like you have good documentation and that will be very helpful for an investigation. That is where your responsibility ends, though, so you don't need to feel responsible over the outcome. It is the dog's owners who will need to carry the burden of regret since they clearly failed to train their dog properly. Knowing that a dog is "nippy" and allowing it an opportunity to bite a child is not an indication of responsible dog ownership.

Jody - Those serious dog attacks are also a fairly common occurence in New Zealand. Animals that do severe damage are destroyed immediately, no questions asked. I'm not entirely sure of the laws regarding less severe injuries.

Astilbe & Harmonium - I was fairly certain that it was more than "a nip" given the size of the bite mark, and the extent of the bruising, but it was good to get others views on this. Fortunately it wasn't as severe as the last injury, which required a number of stitches to his mouth and lip.

My son was approached at school today by the owners niece and a friend (a male friend.) They offered to pay him $20 to pick out the wrong dog in the line-up. LOL! So, I'm guessing there could be repercussions for him if the dog is destroyed, but we'll deal with that if/when the time comes.

We unfortunately had something come up last minute and had to delay the trip into town to the "Animal Management Shelter" until tomorrow, after school. I will update at that time.

Thanks all for your thoughts.

I am probably in the minority for this one but since the skin isn't broken, I would classify it as a nip rather than a bite. Given the size of the dog (german shepard) and the fact that the skin was not broken, I'd be even further inclined to believe nip from an overly exuberant dog who doesn't realize his size. That type of nip would be common in a pack as part of play-time. If this is a dog under two years of age, that would be the third point in favor of a nip over a bite, IMO.

Anything requiring a bandage or stitches is a bite. A bruise is not, IMO, a bite.

Ash,
I can see where you are comming from and I would normally agree. The age of the dog does matter. However, given the level of bruising (area of bruising) and the fact that this was done through clothing, while the owner was recalling the dog and the boy was walking (not running) away I still think it is a bite. A nip generally uses the front incisors, whereas this wound looks to me like the full mouth was placed on the body. In my mind and my experience, full mouth= bite. Granted, it could have been much worse had the dog chose to sink his teeth in. I think the dog was unsure of what was going on (having gotten out of his territory, stranger nearby, owner yelling) and reacted accordingly.

Well then it's a good thing we're not on the Animal Council (or whatever it's called) in New Zealand because we'd have a tough time agreeing on a course of action for this dog's owner!

My own dog has nipped a couple of times and when she has done it has been more like a pinch with her front teeth that did not even leave a red mark and it has only happened when she felt threatened by what someone was doing to her. She has never run after anyone to give them such a warning sign. I think that a dog that chases after a child passing by even though the owner is calling it back is not properly trained and could do serious damage. If it is a young dog and the bite was playful, then the dog may still have a chance to be properly trained.

The bite is definitely not a severe bite and yet in my opinion it is in fact a bite and not merely a nip. It is not something I would want to see a dog destroyed for and yet I do think the owners need to take responsibility for making sure something like this does not happen again, even if that means using a muzzle when the dog is outside. Leaving the gate open so the dog was running loose was really not a good idea, especially considering the dog does not appear to listen very well when called. I can have my dog anywhere off leash and she will stay by my side but my older daughter's dog (the one she trained and showed for 4-H) does not come when she is called so she can not be outside in our fenced yard without also being on a lead. My younger daughter's puppy will hopefully be a good dog like mine since she at least comes when she is called, unless she has a hold of something she doesn't want to let go of and is afraid we will take from her (many things she should not have end up in her mouth since she is still in her chewing phase but she usually drops them and then runs to us since she has been through the drill so many times now, LOL).

Anyway, I think Amanda did the right thing by making the report and the result of the investigation is not in her hands. Her son can certainly choose to identify the dog or not for whatever reasons he may have but at least the owners are aware that they need to do something more about their dog than to merely apologize for their dog being "nippy" when it shows signs of aggression.

Wow, maybe I am just new to this board and not used to all this. Were you trying to be offensive or just agreeing to disagree? I would love clarification. I hope the latter, and that is how I will choose to take it.

I don't really think, from your previous post, that our views differ much. Just in the semantics. Call it a bite or a nip, the boy was still hurt. I am not in favor of euthanizing a dog for this (especially if it was a young dog with no history of it before), as long as the owners take steps to ensure it won't happen again. Again, I really don't think our views differ much, maybe I am reacting improperly to this post. But maybe not.

I don't think it matters if we agree or not. I also don't think it matters if we call it a nip or a bite (you know my opinion). The bottom line is..... Amanda is doing the right thing by her child and herself. Whatever her decisiion is, I will support it because I am not there and only she knows. I applaud her for that. I don't want to start drama with you, for any reason.

We just drove all the way into town and back for no reason. I was out most of the day and missed the call. We didn't have to ID the dog afterall. The owner has apparently gone to the Animal Management place and admitted that his dog bit my son, without provocation, and admitted to failing to keep it properly restrained. He's apparently been prosecuted, but allowed to take the animal home, under the conditions that it be properly restrained in the future.

Whether it be a bite or a nip, regardless, my son received an injury which could have been prevented. I'm comfortable with my decision to report the incident. All I can hope for now is that the owner takes notice of his responsibilities.

Gosh, Amanda, I would think they could have called to let you know you didn't have to drive all that way. Seems like a waste of your time, I'm sorry you had to deal with that on top of everything else! But.....

Maybe the owner going in an admitting to Animal Management that his dog bit w/o provocation and that he failed to keep the dog confined shows some level of responsibilty for the actions taken place. I really hope that this owner does indeed take this seriously and will prevent future occurences.

Maybe you could go speak with him (calmly) about what he intends to do? Just to acknowledge the circumstanses and open communication? Just a thought.

I feel bad for you and especially for your son. I hope (as it does sound from your posts) that he does not think all dogs are aggressive. Is the physical injury healing well?

Congradulations on handling this in such a productive and positive manner! You need to pat yourself on the back for this one. I think you did a great job with a very tricky situation.

I am glad the owner has taken responsibility so you won't have to worry about feeling guilty over the outcome. It sounds like a fair judgement, in my opinion. Are you satisfied with the way things turned out?

My son is handling this all really well. The injury is healing fine. We talked about dogs in general as we drove into town. He's not afraid of dogs. He's had plenty of exposure to obedient and non-aggressive dogs. He talked about his best friends Bison Frise, our own mutt dog, the Boxer that he walks and other non-aggressive dogs that he knows. He talked about why some dogs bite and the different natures of some breeds that he is familiar with. I dug up some more information for him re: what can motivate a dog to become aggressive. He doesn't at all seem traumatised by the recent incident. I've given him plenty of information to know how to keep himself safe. I'm really impressed with the way that he is processing this, discussing his feelings & thoughts on the subject.


I'm glad that the decision wasn't up to me. I'm happy that the owner has taken responsibility for what happened. Like, I said, I hope that the owner takes notice of his responsibilities and complies with the conditions that have been placed upon him. I've done some reading up on the council bylaws for my area, re: animals that have been reported as being aggressive. Failure to comply will result in further infringement notices and ultimately a ban on being a dog owner for a period of 5 years. I'm assuming that the council will be monitoring this. It's really out of my hands now.

The words are just the words - no hidden meaning, no subtle text between the lines. It's a basic commentary on how difficult it must be to be in a position of authority in a case like that when there are differing opinions and thankfully neither of us are being asked to adjudicate or mediate the situation.