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I've been reminded lately of the way my brain used to work, and of a pitfall I still have to pay attention to today.

I can recall that I spent a long time researching different psychological theories. What does this mean, what causes it, what are the symptoms, what are the different treatment options. Maybe if I could "understand" the disorder, then I wouldn't have it anymore. Maybe if I learned enough about the practice of psychology, I would know enough to be OK.

Yeah, I spent a lot of time understanding on psychology.
I wasn't spending ANY of that time trying to understand MYSELF.

In AA there's talk of "being part of the solution instead of being part of the problem". It took me a while to grasp that! but it makes sense to me now. Any time I spend my energy on what's UNHEALTHY for me is NOT energy I spend trying to make myself HEALTHY. I can look at theory and treatment and diagnoses for YEARS without EVER putting that knowledge to any use. Until I began APPLYING what I learned to my daily life, I never made any progress.

It was actually a very effective means for me to AVOID progress.

I was running away from DOING anything about my problems. I can't THINK my way out of anything - I have to DO something. I wasted a lot of years and energy avoiding the work that HAD to be done to bring about any real change. Change comes from action, and that was the LAST thing I wanted to do. If I didn't actually DO what people told me, then I could keep believing that I wasn't really as sick as they said. If I kept searching for the "ideal" diagnosis, then I could continue to claim that "I don't have THAT". If i kept researching therapy options, I could keep telling myself that "THAT wouldn't help me". As long as I could find a reason, any reason to NOT take action, I allowed myself to stay sick.

In some ways, that's why I don't care about this specific diagnosis or that one. I don't care much about this specific treatment or the other. That stuff isn't as important to me anymore. What matters to me today is "what can I do today to become a healthier, more balanced person?". Never mind what this person believes. Never mind what that person says. Never mind what those guys are doing. I have my own problems, and they require action if I have any hope of peace.

WHAT CAN I DO TODAY to move forward in my recovery?

Excellent post, Minx! It reminds me of myself, trying at first to fight my BPD diagnosis, and then trying to figure out why I have it. I did that for a very long time, instead of taking action to become healthier. However, the theory part is interesting, and psychology fascinates me, so there is that aspect of it too. Like everything else, you need a middle ground.

On the idea of self-understanding...

Seems to me there's a key difference between reading about [insert label here] trying to understand [repeat label] versus reading about it as an aid to self-understanding. Reading about something to avoid looking at oneself versus reading about it to help see and understand oneself.

I tend to see that self-understanding as separate from "doing". It's reflecting on myself, not taking action. Still, it's an important part of the recovery process I think. But, SELF understanding, not trying to understand everyone else and avoiding looking at oneself.

my T used to say...dont just walk the walk. talk the talk. ya gotta FEEL IT. then DO IT. but ya also gotta understand what your doing and why.....

a balance...kinda.

i agree with ellen. self understanding.

I also think, for me at least, that I can't really DO untill I know how. Or it doesn't stick. So I reseach the labels and find out the best plan of attack for my problem. Maybe not even the label, but the behaviours I want to change. Then I ACT. Acting being the follow-through, the most important part. But for me, if I don't know why I am doing x, I will be stuck wondering what's the point? and the results will inevitably be more slow in coming. Like, if I want to take a road trip, I need a map. I need to know the most logical way to get there. Maybe once I'm on the road, a side road will catch my eye and I will discover some local off the beaten path treasure that my map didn't teach me, but I always have the map to go back to and I am still headed in my general direction. I wouldn't just get in the car and hope I make it to my destination. And for me, I can't trust someone else to lead the way. Too often in my life have I been lead to a completely different place than I wanted to go. Part of my recovery is doing things on my own, and in this case it means learning all I can about my disorder(s). I will still stop and ask for directions from time to time, I will just trust my own judgement more so because only I Know me.

My T thought I was too self-absorbed. She used to tell me that journaling was good for others, but not for me because I would get so involved with myself and spent too much time analyzing everything instead of living life.

I agree that too much introspection can be a problem. However, if we don't know what is wrong, how do we know how to proceed to change? I agree that balance is needed. I also think that maybe the balance should be tipped in favor of action rather than study. But don't we need a basis or foundation? I for one cannot just simply do whatever I am told (anymore), I have to know why and how it will help me. It is actually one of my issues, to always do what I am told without question. Asking why is what my T suggested as a good way to break the old habit and form self-reliance (action). Sometimes blindly following any therapudic course of action suggested, IMHO, is not in our best interest. We have to see which ones work for us. Personal responsibility, ya know? Deciding by critically thinking things through what is best for me.

I think, part of it is, self-understanding doesn't mean much until you use it in action. It's putting what we learn into action.

lol, im the queen of "why?" usually drives everyone nuts but its how i am. i must know the whys about everything.

its just gray, not 100% of either one, but a blend of both. there is no way i could change something without knowing why i do it. until the need for it is healed, it just wont work for me.

damn it, ps. forgot something.

all behaviors (esp the negatives) stem from a certain need. i dont see how anyone can change the core behaviors without fixing the need. mine are too automatic for that...again...ummmm inner child stuff. adults simply dont need the behaviors, nor have the needs. if so it wouldnt be adult!

just my own views there..........

I happen to see research as moving in a positive direction rather than giving me reason to stay in one place. I have never been trusting enough to take anyone's word for anything! LOL

Medical doctors usually encourage people to learn as much as they can about their medical condition in order to take proper care of themselves. Certainly therapists would want their clients to know as much as possible to aid in their own therapy.

I think the example with Joshua is a valid one where a doctor indicated the problem was anorexia when the real problem was a physical disorder. The treatment was not effective because the problem was not accurately defined and that resulted in over a decade of improper treatment. It would not have mattered how hard Joshua had worked the treatment plan when the correct disorder was not being addressed.

I know for myself I am not going to know which direction to take unless I have a clear sense of direction. Without knowledge and understanding I will be moving in the wrong direction and that will be a waste of years in therapy that I would prefer to avoid. I have seen many examples of people being sick for 10 to 20 years or more and I can't help but think the therapists must have been incompetent to keep someone in therapy so long without improvement. I have read books about conditions that are made worse through therapy and I can avoid that type of therapy myself instead of going through the same thing someone else had to go through.

At one time Freud thought woman were fantasizing about incest when they disclosed it in therapy and he labeled them as histrionic. I imagine at that time the woman thought that since they were being seen by the great and powerful Freud that what he was telling them was the truth and they learned to give up their "fantasy" of having had sex with their fathers after going through years of psychoanalysis and dream interpretation. These days there are more effective therapy options.

I think that anyone with at least average intelligence would benefit from doing some research and questioning their therapist about their treatment plan. I personally don't believe it is a good idea to have blind faith in a therapist. Before people were taught to read, it was only the priests who read and interpreted the Bible and that was a dangerous period of history where people were being accused of witchcraft so the church could claim their property. There are ethics that therapists need to follow and they need to demonstrate competence if they want to make a living in their chose profession. It would be too easy for incompetent therapists to con people into paying them for substandard care if their clients are kept uninformed about their condition.

Agree with Denim...

I went for years doing and because my decision-making skills were so poor, I did a whole lot of things that wasted my time. When I stopped for a while and took a look at the big picture, I realized I needed to be thinking and researching and figuring out a whole lot more than I needed to be doing.

One can go for years in a religion or in therapy or a career, and then wake up one day and realize it was all a big lie, because they didn't know themselves, and they didn't know what they wanted or needed or believed. And I think that's why I make sure anything any doctor tells me is understood and agreed upon... doctors don't have the time to spend on me that I do.

I also see that at a certain point, it is time to start doing as well... to start doing as in changing one's processes, actions, and thoughts, and to start doing as in exploring activities to find out who one is...

Even "automatic" behaviors can be tamed, even if you don't know the original why's. You can see the now "why" that got you to act like that. Recognize it as a trigger to that unwanted behavior. As you recognize the trigger more and more, you can actually stop yourself before you do the behavior. I'm of the belief that very little is "automatic". Easier behavior to demonstrate? Yes. Automatic? Not likely.

I was one of those patients who was in therapy for years and years, never getting any better. I was told I was neurotic. I was told I had anxiety issues. I had depression. I hated being told I was neurotic - it was so patronizing! It made me feel like I was the cause of my problems. That if I just did this or that right, I would get better. Of course I never got better - I was never properly diagnosed. But I didn't know that.

When I was first diagnosed with BPD, I went through several transitions. For months I fought the diagnosis. "This can't be me." I saw my T twice a week, and kept saying "I don't have this. It can't be true." For months I did this. Then I finally thought maybe he was right. So he gave me books to read. And that opened my eyes. Then I started researching on the Internet. My T never discouraged me from learning all I could.

Then he told me about DBT and what it was. How it could help me.

So basically I went through several phases. I am glad he gave me the diagnosis because it finally was something I could see. I could understand why I was behaving the way I was all these years. As much as I don't like having BPD, I do like having the diagnosis because it explains so many things. And now I have been able to move forward and learn new coping skills.

I've had bad experiences with medical doctors and with therapists. But in the old days, we did not have the luxury of the Internet. It wasn't as easy to look things up. The information was just not out there. Now everything is at our fingertips. I have learned my lesson and I will never blindly trust a doctor again. After the major health problems my son had, I don't follow doctors blindly. I ask questions, I do research. I also know I have to have some faith in who I hire, but I am better equipped to do that now. I have been seeing my T for 3 years and he has proven himself to me. He has seen me through very difficult times and very trying times. But I do ask questions of him if I don't understand something. I've figured out that balance.

The way I see it, you can read, you can introspect, you can self-understand until the cows come home, but recovery WILL NOT happen without changing one's behaviour/thought patterns. That's where the "doing" that I think Minx is referring to comes into the picture. Essentially, it doesn't matter what your means are to that end, so long as it results in change.

However, understanding why and what about yourself, (which can be helped by researching the psychology behind your problems) can be a great guide to what to DO next. Eg: psychoanalysis has helped me to understanding the way my needs weren't met as a child. This helps me to connect that treatment to the way that when I began recovery I went out with people who didn't meet my needs. It helped me to see that there was actually a pathological pattern in being drawn to those who weren't capable of meeting my needs. And that helped me to learn how to identify people who were unhealthy to become involved with. And that lead me to choosing who not to associate with. But I had to MAKE that choice not to associate with them, not to jump in bed and get involved, and it's been in the repeated action of making this choice that I have now found myself in the healthiest relationship I've ever been in (so far). All that understanding helped to get the crud out of my life, leaving a much wider avenue for healthier people. And this makes me happy in a way I hadn't ever experienced before. That's gotta be recovery eh?

I can't say why exactly Minx wrote this post, but I see that it's a great reminder to us all that recovery cannot happen without action. It's easy to get caught up in understanding and fail to act. It's also hard to make good decisions and healthy actions without any self-awareness. I did the self-awareness thing to death and couldn't get much further with it, but a lot of self-awareness came to me by DOing. I've learned a lot more about the world by changing my behaviour than I did by thinking about it.

I read a book a while ago written by a psychiatrist. He said that on his laptop in his rooms, he has a screen saver running all the time that says "What next?". It's to remind his patients of the focus of their therapy. The "what next" embodies the subsequent action.

Sarah, first I want to say I'm so glad you're in a good relationship right now! I'm very happy for you!

I also want to say that I agree with you. I know people who analyze things to death, but they never make a move to change. I've always been the "shit or get off the pot" kind of person. It's interesting how being diagnosed with BPD changed me - it took me much longer to change than I would have thought. But I was resistant to change because staying in the same place was easier, more comforting, safer. It wasn't until I saw how my behavior was making me (and others) miserable that I was motivated to do something about it. And learning about BPD and what it is helped to move me along.

Now it's easier to change "nasty" behaviors because I know more of why I do them and I can try to overcome them now.

At the old BPD Central's Nook, my signature line said:

What are you going to DO about it?

It's all well and good to complain (vent, examine, etc.) but without action, things will never change.



I've often said that the concept of recovery from Borderline is a lot like asking a fully functional person to give up the use of their legs. There's nothing wrong with the legs, they still work, you can still walk and run with them but recovery means being asked to learn how to get around in the world without them. Not having them removed, just having the willpower not to use them. It's a really tough proposition for most people because we've spent usually our whole lives using those legs and running around (being borderline.) It's tough to consider giving up all that we've known and try something new that seems much more limiting and less gratifying in the immediate moment.

I can identify with the above, Ash. I want to add that it seems like I've got a NEW pair of legs and have had to learn to walk all over again! First it was baby steps, then bigger ones, and now I'm getting the "hang" of it at last.

I wonder where Minx has been. I think this has been a good discussion, but I think it would be good to have her input, as far as if we are staying on topic as far as what she had in mind.

Looking back at her post starting this thread, I notice this:



There and in the post as a whole, I don't see here differentiating between self-understanding and doing. I don't think it's even possible to have self understanding but not in some way apply it. I see her talking about having all kinds of nice general ideas about psychological stuff, but not using those ideas for self-understanding.

I think self-understanding is the important first step in doing. It's not separate from doing, and it's only the first step, but I think putting that self-understanding into practice naturally follows.

Though, I think there are other things as well to learn and put into practice. Like the Tools.

Yes, Ellen, I agree we need self-understanding. But that takes a long time. I think for me, the self-understanding had to go hand-in-hand with learning skills. I spent 25 years trying to learn self-understanding and it got me nowhere. Because no one gave me skills on how to change my behavior. I'm not saying we don't need to understand ourselves, but without the diagnosis of BPD and the skills to get better, I was like a rat running around on that wheel. I used to sit in the therapy chair, go over and over my latest depression or why I was so anxious, but it never got better. Nothing ever changed. I think we need both things to get moving. At least that's my opinion. Thanks!

I initially suspected that Minx started this thread as a way to point out to me that I was doing a lot of research and that perhaps it was getting me nowhere but then I may have been taking her words personally and relating them more to myself than she intended, LOL. I sometimes "intellectualize" things to death in an attempt to reach enlightenment and there are times that can get me into a tail spin, leaving me more confused.

Overall I find intellectuallization a good tool to use, though, so I might have voiced dissension with the idea that it is a means of avoiding progress while at the same time recognizing that my own mental health label is something I spend more time trying to comprehend than taking action to correct. I have not been able to conclude if it is all in my head or if there is a spiritual basis to it and so I am left with the never ending question of exactly how to deal with some of the symptoms. For example, I don't know if I should ignore the "voices" as something imaginary that I created and must now destroy so they don't make me crazy or if I should prayerfully insist that they go away and return to wherever they came from. If they are "parts" of myself then I should be working on "integration" but if they are "demonic" then I should not even be listening to them! I know this keeps me stuck and yet it can't be both unreal and real at the same time so I need to know what they are in order to know how to deal with them. My therapist calls them "parts" and yet I don't have a sense that they are "part" of myself split off from consciousness because that would mean that I made them up and have been lying to myself for so many years in some crazy pretend game in order to keep myself from knowing the truth.

One thing I have learned is that I should not post when I have stayed awake all night because my brain is already on "overload" from a lack of sleep! With that in mind, I need to stop typing now so I don't blow a fuse, LOL.

I agree that gaining knowledge & self-understanding is vital. But in my own case, I've recently realized that I use analysis as a defense mechanism. The reason I intellectualize and keep things in my head is because it feels safer than to let the information reach my heart and feel my emotions. I can read about sadness, pain, grief, etc., but it stays in my head as an accumulation of knowledge, without ever being in touch with or recognizing my own internal sadness & pain. I also tend to research and analyze when I become anxious. In some way, I must believe that the more knowledge I get, the "safer" I am and the more I will find the right "answer" to solve my problems, rather than realizing that the answer lies in the way I think, feel, and choose to live right now. It's a sort of searching for something that is always "just around the corner" yet never quite attainable. It keeps me running in circles like a gerbil on its wheel, very very busy but not getting where I need to be. I can also confuse myself by overanalyzing, seeing every possible angle and possibility and way of looking at things, muddying up the picture with so many possibilities that I can't see which step to take next or where I should go.

So in a nutshell, yeah, I think knowledge and analysis are important but they can be detrimental too. Balance is the key.

Regarding what I said about self-understanding...

When come to understand something about ourselves and that understanding becomes really a part of us, then that understanding will come out in our actions.

But, other times, I might come to understand something, and then forget. Maybe forgotten altogether, or maybe just filed away somewhere, without getting every put into the active files. (Figurative files That's when cognative strategies are helpful. That's where reminding myself of what I learned helps me.

A few weeks back I had a big realization about my feelings for someone. But then I forgot about it till I reread my journal entry about it. (And I always reread the previous entry when I write in my journal, mostly for proofreading, but also as a reminder where I was at then, and in case I have something to add to what I'd said then.) This time, I'm going to make sure I don't forget. Remind myself. I even got the thought written down on a piece of paper that I can read, which I put in my purse.